Dan Drews: There we go. In three, two, one. Hello everyone, and welcome to Aging in Place, the Greater Naperville area’s family guide. Our goal is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle-aged adults, typically in their 40s to 60s, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting their aging parents while also raising their own children.

We want to help parents age as gracefully as possible and reduce stress through education and community connection. It takes a village, folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover through expert guests that know the local area very, very well. … I am your host, Dan Drews, and with me today is my co-host and sponsor, Brennan Roberts, the owner of Seniors Helping Seniors for the greater Naperville area. And we wanna thank one of our other supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who’s a great advocate for all businesses that support [00:01:00] seniors in the Naperville area.

Brennan, good to see you again. Tell us a little bit about what’s going on with Seniors Helping Seniors.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well, it’s, uh, glad to be here. Obviously, this is a, a great educational platform for us. You know, we help seniors sort of age gracefully as possible and live independently as long as they want. Uh, and we do it through providing, you know, home care, uh, services such as transportation, companionship, personal care.

Um, and you know, we help families with memory and Alzheimer’s issues all the time. So this is a great topic. Many of our caregivers are very mature, often seniors themselves, who have helped care for family members, and that kind of brought us into the fold. Uh, so this is obviously a super relevant topic for us, and we’re glad to be here to learn more and help educate people.

Dan Drews: Well, Brennan, thank you again for sponsoring such a great show. We really appreciate it. And folks, our show today is going to focus [00:02:00] on the tragic diseases of Alzheimer’s and dementia, and how to navigate this with our loved ones. And in order to help us with that, we have two fantastic leaders from the Alzheimer’s Association.

Hadi Finnerty is the director of community engagement for the Alzheimer’s Association Illinois Chapter based in the greater Chicago area. She has spent over a decade providing vital education on dementia, brain health, and caregiving resources to the local community. Locally, Finnerty is heavily involved in outreach and educational events.

She regularly hosts seminars such as Healthy Living for Brain and Body and discussions on new treatment trials- At venues like Hinsdale Public Library, on regional broadcasts like WGN Radio, and now our show. Uh, Tom Hennigan is the senior walk manager for DuPage. He participated in his first walk a [00:03:00] few years ago in honor of his friend’s mom, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s.

He also lost his grandmother to dementia, seeing firsthand and from afar what Alzheimer’s and dementia havoc, uh, has made on the impact on him. He’s proud to be a part of this organization and to work together so that one day we will have a world without Alzheimer’s and dementia. Thank you both for joining us today.

We can’t thank you enough for sharing your information on this terrible disease that affects so many people, and, uh, we really appreciate having you here today, too. So with that being said, why don’t we kind of start big picture with, uh, Alzheimer’s in general, and kind of talk to us about the disease- Mm-hmm

and then we’ll just drill down on all the ways that your organization helps folks with it.

Hadi Finnerty: Okay. So you can see, um, the Alzheimer’s Association, oftentimes people don’t really know what we do, and our main focus is really driving that, like, global research. [00:04:00] So what is that? That’s, um, coming up, actually.

July 12th is the, um, Alzheimer’s Association International Conference, and this year it’s held in London. So every year it brings thousands of scientists, researchers, um, students to this site, and every year it changes. Um, and everybody has a passion, right? They’re here to find some kind of prevention, treatment, hopefully one day a cure, um, to this disease.

So it’s a phenomenal, um, place to be. The energy’s very high. So when we talk about that, we are talking about that global research front. Um, and then also really focusing on that early detection, right? Because as people get older, we… And we’ll talk about that, I’m sure, later, we don’t always remember everything.

So what is things to be concerned about? And w- really focusing on, like, if you’re starting to forget, it’s okay. Talk to your doctor about it. It might not be Alzheimer’s or dementia. And then our quality care and [00:05:00] support. So what that really means is our education programs in the community, our support groups, our, um, 1-800 helpline.

Those are all of the things that we focus on to bring to the community, is our quality, uh, care and support. And then of course, my favorite is our vision, which is a world without Alzheimer’s and other dementias, because wouldn’t that be wonderful when we do see our first survivor holding up their white flower at our Walk to End Alzheimer’s?

Dan Drews: Yeah. That, that would be amazing. I mean, and, and Tom, in our intro, we kind of talked about your personal connection- Yep … to this disease. Can you talk a little bit more about that and how this hits home for you personally?

Tom Heneghan: Yeah, for sure. So, uh, going to my first walk a few years ago was actually in McHenry County, and, uh, my friend’s mom, she has since passed, but she had a, um, early onset, and she was, you know, a teacher, you know, full of life, and just saw the devastation of that disease.

And then my own grandmother, um, she is from Ireland. Her first language is not English, [00:06:00] and towards the end of her life she didn’t know English, and I don’t know Irish that well. So we had the same question, “Hi, how are you?” And you know, eventually, you know, she didn’t know who I was, but, uh, right now, um, it’s actually my dad who was diagnosed with vascular dementia.

Mm. So now we’re, we’re, like, battling that on the home front. Luckily my mom was a caretaker for a while, so she, like, to your point, Brennen, is, like, very experienced in bringing in that knowledge. But now we’re dealing with it with my dad and going to his appointments and learning a lot about that. So we see the devastation firsthand, and at this point, almost everyone is touched in a certain way by the disease.

And- The best part about what we do in the community that we’ve built is that we’re all able to help each other-

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm …

Tom Heneghan: and share our experience and knowledge, and it’s great seeing that. I see it from the volunteers sharing with amongst each other, and then just, like, even us at the home office and at the, uh, local office here in Lisle talking about it.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I think it’s so important to have, like, a peer community when you’re going through that. Either- Mm-hmm … helping a family member or even [00:07:00] people at early stages of the disease to know they’re not alone. These are things that other people experience, you know, and just getting that support going through it.

Mm-hmm. So I think that’s a, a, a great resource for it. So I also appreciate you guys stopping by before your trip to London here, I

Dan Drews: assume. I assume you’re gonna be- Oh,

Brennen Roberts: man. I wish. We

Dan Drews: tried, but we were denied, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, let’s talk a little bit about kind of the disease overall and, and Alzheimer’s and dementia, and are they, are they same?

You know, kind of talk to us a little bit about maybe the similarities or differences kind of between the two.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. So the best way is, I like to say it’s like an umbrella term, right? We have dementia, and underneath it is our list of symptoms. And those symptoms, and we’ll see a little bit more about that, is more like our…

You know, when people are thinking about, “Okay, what am I experiencing?” It could be something like our navigation, right? Someone who’s driven to the same place for many, many years one day forgets how to [00:08:00] go there.

Brennen Roberts: Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: Or, you know, recently learned information, where you’re telling them something and then you’re noticing five minutes later you’re repeating yourself, and then 20 minutes later you’re repeating yourself.

That recently learned, that short-term memory starts to go away. Or it could be someone that loves to, you know, plan something, and they have 1,000 to-do lists, and now they’re not checking those items off their to-do list. Um, those are kind of, you know, the dementia symptoms. There’s so many. Um, but I like to say those are the, the common things that we start to notice.

Alzheimer’s is the most common form of dementia. So 60 to 80% of cases is Alzheimer’s disease.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: But you’ll notice there’s, uh, common ones too, like, you know, we’ll see vascular dementia. So for some individuals, when… Our working… We always say what’s good for the heart is also good for the brain.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: Um, and when that blood flow stops, right, the 20 to 25% of oxygen flow to the brain, someone has a stroke, some people, [00:09:00] they don’t come out of that, what they say, brain fog. It moves into those dementia-like symptoms. Um, and, you know, Lewy body dementia, when Robin Williams passed away, they actually- Mm-hmm

announced he had Lewy body dementia as well. Um, here, oftentimes it’s kind of associated with Parkinson’s disease.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: So we’ll see people that are shaking, shuffling, uh, maybe they’re having hallucinations. And then the last one is frontal temporal dementia. We see these in people in their, like, late 40s, early 50s.

We all know Bruce Willis is currently living with this disease right now. Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s more mood than their memory. So here, we’re gonna notice that- They’re isolating quickly. They become non-verbal quickly. Um, I think the tricky thing with Alzheimer’s is every person is different. So, you know, what, what might be for, you know, Tom’s dad might have not been what maybe my grandma experienced on her journey.

So it’s hard to kind of pinpoint a lot of that, um, [00:10:00] but I just say dementia is our overall symptoms.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It’s, it- it’s hard. We always talk about, like, you’re looking for changes in behavior- Yeah … you know? And it could be something as simple as a UTI, you know? A hun- yes. His health, you know- Yeah … and it’s just, you know, doctor’s vi- which can get serious, but doctor’s visits and stuff, but it could be something harder.

I, I think what’s hard a lot of times is for, you know, family members may be distance and they only see-

Tom Heneghan: Yeah …

Brennen Roberts: Mom and Dad two or three times a year, and they’re like, “Okay, I’m talking to them on the phone. I’m kind of hearing the same, repeating the same stories.” Yeah. And they’re just not picking that up.

Yeah. And then we find a lot of times, you know, okay, holidays they come and spend an ex- extended, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, this is-” an issue here.

Hadi Finnerty: Or- Yeah … you know, I like to say, too, it’s like when you do have that family member that comes, it’s like taking the car to the mechanic. Your loved one could be having the best day, and they’re thinking, “Well, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I don’t see any of these, these symptoms- Yeah … that you’re describing.” And then the next day, you know, they’re not having the best day. Um, [00:11:00] but yeah, a lot of that, like- Yeah … the urinary tract infections, those are, play a key role, too.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Hadi, tell me a little bit, so your personal experience kind of related to your grandmother- Mm-hmm

if I have that right. What, what was that experience like for you? Yeah. Or how does this be, how does this mission kind of become personal for you kind of based on that, uh, experience you had? Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Well, we were my grandmother’s caregivers. Mm. So she was on this journey for 15 years. The first- Wow,

Dan Drews: 15.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: The first 10 years her and my grandpa lived in Chicago. So we’re a, a Greek family. We’re big. Mm-hmm. Every Sunday we would have Greek family dinner, and we, we would see some of the changes. Um, but for us, the most pronounced change, it was Easter, and every Easter she used to make these butter cookies, and I remember she always would put it in cellophane wrap.

So we would unwrap everything, put it on- Mm … the kitchen island, and my mom and I both looked at each other like, “Something’s not right,” and they were basically a pile of mush. And when my mom and I both looked at each other, she saw us and she said, “I don’t, I don’t [00:12:00] remember how to make these anymore.” Oh my goodness.

And we’re thinking-

Dan Drews: Something

Hadi Finnerty: she’s probably- Something- … made

Dan Drews: forever.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah … with probably not even a recipe. Yeah. We’re like, “Something is not right.” So we started paying more attention, and then my grandpa started saying, “I don’t wanna tell you everything that’s happening,” ’cause he was scared we would take her.

Dan Drews: Oh.

Hadi Finnerty: So my- Wow. Yeah, my grandpa ended up passing, and the last five years of her journey she was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. So the traumatic event of like my grandpa passing really increased and ignited stuff in her brain. Mm. So she lived with us. At the time, I lived at home, so, uh, we took care of her. We, we were her caregivers.

Um, it was the most rewarding experience. Tough. It’s not… You know- Mm-hmm … I, I think I cried a lot, laughed a lot, but I would never take back that time.

Brennen Roberts: Well, that’s wonderful, I get that when families can take care of their loved ones. Yeah. You know, obviously- Yeah … we see a lot of times when maybe they don’t have a family-

Hadi Finnerty: Right

Brennen Roberts: around or they’re, they’re local and as we talk about the sandwich generation, you know. Mm-hmm. You’ve got- [00:13:00]

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah …

Brennen Roberts: kids, you’ve got busy schedules, you got careers. Like, you know, we’ve got a family right now we’re helping out and the grandfather’s there, but the son has to work the whole day so he’s in meetings and the kid’s got activities and, and, and, you know, we’re just providing that family some help, you know.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. We, we try to say it’s such a… Sometimes it can be a… I don’t want to say, it’s not a burden. People don’t see it as a burden, right? Right. But it’s a, it’s a lot and it takes a lot out of the caregiver. So we l- we like to say, like, when we come out and help families, we want to help people become, be more, stay a daughter, granddaughter- Yeah

first and that- Right … caregiver second, if you can. Yeah. So.

Hadi Finnerty: It- Yeah … it definitely changes the family dynamics. When my grandma was diagnosed, my mom was only 37.

Brennen Roberts: Oh, wow. Mm. Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: And it changed. It’s- She had, you know, kids in college and-

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, it’s a tough thing- It was hard … for a kid to, when you, you flip a dynamic where all of a sudden you have to take care of your parents.

Yes.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah.

Tom Heneghan: Tell them what to do, yeah.

Brennen Roberts: It’s like emotionally- Yeah, man … it’s tough to deal [00:14:00] with. You’re like, “Wait a second,” like, “This is not the same role I’ve had- Yeah … my whole life and I need to do this.” I think there’s always an adjustment period for that. I’m,

Dan Drews: I’m curious on, you know, y- y- the fact, my wife’s also from a big Greek family.

Her grandmother also developed, uh, Alzheimer’s dementia and, and, uh, one of the things they had to kind of adjust with her is that my wife’s father, her son, uh, passed away, you know, before she passed away, right? And she would keep asking about him.

Tom Heneghan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: And then they would tell about his passing, and she would continue to relive that.

So they came to the point where they’re just like, “Oh, he’s at the grocery store,” like, you know. I, I’m wondering, did you have to navigate things like that ever too- It’s- … and make a decision? Yes. It might not be the truth- Mm … but it kind of hinges on her happiness. Yeah. Yeah. I’m,

Hadi Finnerty: I’m kind of laughing when you’re saying that because that was exactly our story.

Sh- my grandma would always ask, “When is your grandpa coming? I want to go home.”

Dan Drews: Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: Home to her some days [00:15:00] was where they lived in Chicago, some days it was where she grew up when she lived in Greece. “I want to go home.” We, and we didn’t know. Early on we’re like, “Well, he passed. He’s not coming home.”

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: And then she grieved him.

She’d be very upset. She’d be, like, pulling her hair. And then by coincidence, that week my mom actually had an appointment with the neurologist and he’s like- provide her a therapeutic fib. My mom’s like, “Well, I don’t know if I can lie to her.” Yeah. And he’s like, “You need to because what’s causing her anxiety, you’ve moved on from it, she’s stuck in this now.”

Brennen Roberts: Ah.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. So the next time she asked, my mom said, “You know what? He’ll, he’ll be back.” And she’s like, “Okay, I just need to make sure everything is locked up in our house.” And then I remember one day, and I always would, we’d always say the same thing, “He c- he’s going to Sam’s Club,” they loved going to Sam’s Club.

“When he gets back, you’ll be able to go.”

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: And one day, out of the blue, she goes, “Call him on the phone for me.” And I’m like, “Oh.” I remember I was sweating. I’m like, “What do I do?” I called my, one of my [00:16:00] uncles, and I’m like, “She’s asking for him.” So he talked to her, she thought it was my grandpa, and she said, “Okay, he’s gonna be here in 10 minutes.”

You know, passage of time means nothing to someone with this disease. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So 10 minutes meant she moved on. “Is it 10 minutes yet?” I’m like, “We’re almost there.” Yeah. And then, you know, we just kind of went over it- Yeah … and then we moved on to something else.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I can see that. Yeah. We say y- you can’t, you can’t bring them to you, you gotta go to where they’re at.

Yes. Right. Right. You know? And kind of live in the moment with them. Yeah. You know? So I like, what’d you say that it was like, thoughtful fibbing or what was the- Therapeutic fibbing … therapeutic fibbing. Yeah. That’s a good phrase. Yeah. That’s a good phrase. Yeah.

Dan Drews: But it makes sense, right? It does. You don’t have to relive the trauma.

Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Let’s talk about the, the disease itself, too. We’ve talked about, a little bit about some of the symptoms with both of your loved ones, you talked about too. Is there anything else about the disease that you think you, the, the listeners should know?

Hadi Finnerty: I, I do like to point out it’s a gradual disease.

It worsens over time. [00:17:00] Um, people do pass away from this disease. I think it’s a misconception, people don’t think they do, and yes, they can pass away from another ailment. But right now, it’s the seventh leading cause of death in the United States.

Tom Heneghan: Wow. Wow.

Hadi Finnerty: Um, so people do pass. The thing that I think people struggle with is there’s no timeline, right?

So we have phases where they go through early, or we like to say, you know, um, middle and late stages. Um, there’s no time. No one can tell you how long they’re gonna be in each stage for. People, again, they’re whole individual, they progress at their own time. So we’re… We might see people living in the early stages for quite some time, or they might pass through it quickly and now they’re in the middle to late stages.

So I always like to point that out because I don’t think people really know about that. Um, and you might also hear it as, like, mild, moderate, and severe stages. It just depends on how people, um, are describing the stages.

Tom Heneghan: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. And to Hadi’s point too, she mentioned, like, a lot of [00:18:00] times you… They’ll be having a few bad days in a row, and they have a couple of good days in a row, but that doesn’t mean that they’re getting better or anything.

It just, that’s the way it happens.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah.

Tom Heneghan: And sometimes y- people just need to keep that in mind, like it’s, it’s not a linear progression. It’s gonna be ups and downs throughout the whole process, but it will eventually start getting more and more severe.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, yeah. There’s no great answer for what to expect-

Dan Drews: Exactly

Brennen Roberts: Right

tomorrow, next week- Right … next month, like

Dan Drews: Well, I tell you what, your, the Alzheimer’s Association has done a ton of work on facts and figures and different statistics around this disease. This is a great infographic. Where do you want to start with this, or things that you think are maybe not commonly known?

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah, I think the number one thing is the over seven million Americans right now in the United States that are living with Alzheimer’s. Um, and one of the things I like to… I’m sure, Tom, I’m speaking for you, you also like, is three out of four, and this is a new statistics we haven’t seen, [00:19:00] is Americans say lifestyle is really important for them, right?

Like, what can they do? They know that. Mm-hmm. 36%, you’re gonna see, they know it, but maybe they’re not really partaking in those, um, lifestyle habits, but they know that that benefits them. And we saw a huge shift in our facts and figures because now we’re moving more into, like, brain health and what everybody can do.

So I think for myself, that’s one of my things that people are like, “Wow, there are things that we can do today,” and there are. Um, but you know, we’ll see the one in three older adults. When I talk about that when I’m in community, you see people, like, look around like, “One in three- Mm-hmm … dies

Dan Drews: from this?”

Which there’s- Right … four of us in this room. Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: It’s gonna be, so.

Hadi Finnerty: Right. Yeah.

Dan Drews: Well, that, that makes sense. Like the physical health. Like Brennan, I know you talked about you’ve got some clients with Seniors Helping Seniors that some of our, some of your caregivers just help them go on walks and try and keep up that physical activity.

Brennen Roberts: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we’ve got a, we’ve got a client that, uh, [00:20:00] I mean she’s early s- early stage dementia and she w- still lives in indep- still able to live in- Yeah … independent living. Yeah. But she loves walking. So, like- Yeah … we actually go out and, you know, the walks that they do at the senior center are, like, around the building.

She’s like, “No, I wanna go crank out a three-mile walk.”

Tom Heneghan: Right, right,

Brennen Roberts: right. So we have caregivers that go up and just go for walks with her, which is a pretty nice- Oh, that’s, that’s awesome … pretty nice gig. But you know, and she’s… And that’s obviously good for her physical health, it’s good for her brain health.

Yep. She’s outdoors. She’s walking with a companion. Mm-hmm. So it’s, it’s, it’s just makes for her… She, she has much better days when she’s able to get out- Yeah … and walk and stuff like that. So I had a question. I, I don’t know if it’s in the stats. I don’t know the answer. But do you have stats on like, like the, the ages when people get- diagnosed and at what ages, you know, how young- Yeah

young people need to kind of be on the lookout for

Tom Heneghan: and, uh- Well, the, typically- Yeah … you develop [00:21:00] symptoms on average about, is it 20 years before they start showing up?

Brennen Roberts: Really?

Tom Heneghan: Mm-hmm. So if we see this here with one in three of those over 65, that means by 45 that you might start developing some of the symptoms, but it doesn’t really progress to a noticeable point.

But it’s like we talked about, um, with Alzheimer’s particular, there’s plaques on the brain. That’s what that disease state is. With vascular, it’s a shrinking of the blood vessels, less blood flow- Mm … so, like, your neural link connections are gonna be shrinking. So it’s like it, you know, it’s gonna look different for everybody else.

However, it’s really scary to think. It’s like your 40s and your 50s is when you need to be making these lifestyle changes we’ll talk more about- Yeah … that will help slow down the progression. Not prevent it, but slow down the progression of the disease. But yet that’s typically on the average range of when we start seeing that-

Brennen Roberts: Yeah

Tom Heneghan: from the data.

Brennen Roberts: That’s im- and that’s important ’cause I think most people think about, like, our grandparents, you know, and it sound like your, your friend’s mother or- Yeah. Yeah … was pretty She has young

Tom Heneghan: onset.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … pretty young. She’s in her 50s. Yeah. [00:22:00] So it’s not as uncommon as you would think for it to impact people that are, you know- Yeah

not, not that senior, I guess.

Dan Drews: Yeah. When we talk about surprising stats, the one right in the middle of the screen, too, it kills more than breast cancer and prostate cancer combined. I mean, that just, that blows my mind- Mm-hmm … because you don’t think of it in that type of

Hadi Finnerty: magnitude.

Dan Drews: Right. Um, when, when someone dies from Alzheimer’s, is it just a t- a deterioration of their cognitive s- uh, functions?

Or kind of help me understand- Yeah … what they end up passing away from.

Hadi Finnerty: And that’s exactly it. Okay. So in the late stages, um, most are non-verbal. They’ll forget how to swallow. They’ll forget how to chew.

Dan Drews: Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: Um, their body is starting to shut down. The brain is starting to shut down.

Dan Drews: Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: So we’ll see most of them at that point are either bedridden-

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm

Hadi Finnerty: wheelchair bound. There’s not a lot of, I guess, quality of life- No … really for the- Yeah … individual at that point.

Brennen Roberts: Mm. Yeah. We’ve had live-in caregivers [00:23:00] before that, you know, are kind of- Had the benefit of helping a family for- Yeah … multi years, you know? Yeah. And kind of been there sort of at the very, very end and stuff, but.

Dan Drews: And is there a hereditary aspect to this disease? And, and what should people, you know, in their 40s and 50s be asking their, uh, doctors right now in the- in the- in their current checkups if they know it does run in their families?

Hadi Finnerty: So if you have a parent or a sibling, your chances are two times greater.

Dan Drews: Wow.

Hadi Finnerty: If you have two parents, your chances are seven times greater.

Brennen Roberts: Oof. Hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: So that and the young onsets. When we mean young onset, we mean someone diagnosed 65 years or younger, if they carry the gene. So most people, like, I always give, give the reference of that movie Still Alice, right? If you’ve seen it.

She was diagnosed in her early 50s. The child that got the genetic testing done carried the gene, they will develop it.

Dan Drews: Hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: So that’s different. We [00:24:00] have our deterministic genes, right, and then our- the family genes, is the familial genes, is what they call it. Um, so there is- a high chance, but you don’t necessarily get it.

So oftentimes people now with, um, doing, like, genetic testing- Mm-hmm … and they carry, like, the APOE4 gene, then they’re always like, “Am I- I’m gonna get it. This is it. I’m gonna get it,” and you don’t. Doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to get it.

Brennen Roberts: No.

Hadi Finnerty: Just puts you at a higher risk.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well, follow the guidance that you’re gonna share with

Dan Drews: us-

Brennen Roberts: Yes

in a little bit, right? Exactly, yeah. That’s where you gotta, like, pay special, special

Dan Drews: attention to it. Yeah. So. Well, let’s take a look a little bit at some of the stats here in Illinois specifically. Again, some great work that you’ve been doing in Illinois. Where do you wanna take us through some of this data that you’ve been able to compile?

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah, I think the number one thing is just the prevalence in Illinois, over basically 251,000 individuals living with this disease. Again, that is reported, right? Some people [00:25:00] just, you know, don’t, don’t really- There’s

Tom Heneghan: still a stigma.

Hadi Finnerty: Right.

Tom Heneghan: They don’t talk about it. They don’t wanna talk.

Dan Drews: Yeah, they

Tom Heneghan: don’t wanna

Dan Drews: admit to it.

Yeah, yeah. Be- before, yeah, Tom, talk a little bit more about that. Talk about, I guess, the stigma that exists and maybe what you would encourage, not only those people experiencing the symptoms, but the family members around them as well.

Tom Heneghan: Sure, yeah. I think a lot of it is just, when we go to senior fairs, and I’m sure you guys see it too, it’s like people will see our booth, they’ll see our name, and they’ll immediately sit, like, shake their head, wave us off.

They don’t want anything to do with us. And, and that’s, you know, it’s upsetting because it’s like, honestly, we just have all these resources, but they don’t wanna admit to the disease because everyone knows it’s like you, you lose your memories, you lose yourself, and then a lot of people feel like they’ll be a burden on their family.

Mm-hmm. So, it’s kind of out of sight, out of mind. And one of the things I recommend the most is when you get to, um, your mid-60s, is to do that, you know, you have to set it up with your doctor ahead of time, but there’s these 15-minute [00:26:00] tests where they do kind of a neuro psych battery, where it’s the draw the clock, ask some basic math questions.

They’ll give you five words to memorize, tell you a story, “What was the plot of the story, and what were the five words I told you?” And then every year when you’re doing your checkups, they should be doing that, and that way the doctor can see if there is some… ‘Cause now we have a baseline where you were at 65, and then at 70 it’s like, well, you’re pretty much right in the range you should be, or if it’s dropping, then we need to look at it.

Because then we get into things where people might have a mild cognitive impairment, which does not mean you will- Mm-hmm … develop Alzheimer’s or dementia, but everyone who’s ever had Alzheimer’s or another dementia did have an MCI at some point.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Tom Heneghan: So again, we talk about early prevent- like, is early detection is key to treating this disease the best we can and give you the most normalcy.

So as a family, it’s like I just really encourage, uh, besides the health tips, uh, everything that Hadi’s gonna get into, is encourage your loved ones when they get to 65 to start doing these, these tests. And they’re- Yeah … they’re, they’re, they’re [00:27:00] just like everything we did in school.

Dan Drews: Yeah …

Tom Heneghan: and it’s okay.

You’re not meant to pass them either. It’s like if I, you know, I try, I went with my dad and I was just like, “I don’t know what the fuck we’re-” So-

Brennen Roberts: Can I write this down?

Tom Heneghan: Yeah. Yeah. So- Yeah, I was, like, trying to follow along. That kind of defeats the point there, right? Yeah, I was like, “This is tough.” So, um- Well, yeah

yeah, just a big encouragement on that.

Dan Drews: And I think it’s interesting, too, Hadi, you talked about this, too. It’s, it’s kind of a puzzle piece in the standpoint that you can have dementia, but it’s not necessarily Alzheimer’s, and there’s different, uh, I guess, subcategories of it, too. Mm-hmm. So Tom, back to your point, like, doing these tests will help doctors understand, okay, is it Alzheimer’s or is it one of the other types of dementia?

Yeah. Do I have that right? Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Yes. ‘Cause there’s over 70 different types of dementia.

Dan Drews: Oh, my gosh. Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: So it helps-

Dan Drews: Unbelievable …

Hadi Finnerty: some of these te- I mean- Yeah … the proper diagnostic process is more than obviously the five-minute mini-mental status. Mm-hmm. Um, but I always encourage people, like Tom said, talk to your doctor first, and then you can go see someone else, like a neurologist- Mm-hmm

or [00:28:00] a geriatric specialist That specializes with Alzheimer’s or dementia, ’cause not every doctor does. Mm-hmm. So that’s also important, too. Um, but it’s, it’s important because it’s not a five-minute test. It takes hours. Um, they do start with that mini mental testing, and then they go into more deep dive, you know, steps- Oh, yeah

on how to diagnose.

Tom Heneghan: It’s, it’s- Mm-hmm … yeah, the, the neuro psych test, and then they’ll… They still need an MRI to confirm it. And there is blood tests available for early detection, but that, that’s only one piece of the puzzle. Like, you might get that blood test that shows- Mm-hmm … that you’re carrying, like you have Alzheimer’s disease state or whatever it might be, but you still need to go through the MRI process and the neuro psych, and that is a few hours.

Or you might have to make multiple appointments because in my dad’s case, it’s, it was upsetting to him. Even though we weren’t-

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm …

Tom Heneghan: the person doing the test, he’s not gonna be too thrilled if you ask him. ‘Cause the, some of the questions come off insulting to the person, like, “What’s a bird?” And you’re like- Yeah.

“I know what a bird is.” Yeah. But, you know- Mm-hmm … that’s how they start ramping it up [00:29:00] as they go through the test. But it is, it’s, it’s takes a couple hours. It takes numerous neurologist appointments, and we know there’s a shortage of neurologists throughout the US, so you could be on a waiting list. So it’s like, that’s why you gotta-

Brennen Roberts: Plan ahead

Tom Heneghan: you gotta plan ahead and just be aggressive with- Yeah … advocating for your loved one- Yeah … or yourself. Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: I mean, planning ahead is a common theme in our, all our discussions here. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Don’t wait till the last minute- Right … when you’re in crisis, you know, when it comes to your powers of attorneys, your estates, like knowing your parents’ friends, knowing their habits, those kind of things.

It’s just, like it’ll save you so much hassle and- Yeah … stress down the road and stuff, so.

Dan Drews: We, we talked a little bit about, like heart health and, you know, just being a healthy person in general, hopefully being one of those things to kind of stave that off. Are there other things that kind of play in dementia for, uh, for one of the, uh, examples I’ve heard, like, uh, tinnitus or tinnitus, the ringing in the ear can lead to it.

Are there any other things that people need to [00:30:00] be aware of that can lead into dementia or Alzheimer’s?

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah, we do have risk factors. Of course, age is the first one, then genetics and family history. But it’s really, the main stuff is like the cardiovascular factors. Mm-hmm. Um, now they’re doing a ton of research on hearing- Um, because we’re starting to see that, right?

Is it selective hearing or can they not hear? Is that why you’re repeating yourself? So there are studies going into hearing loss. Um, I don’t know if you have anything-

Tom Heneghan: Well, I was gonna say the hearing loss too, like sometimes people withdraw socially- Yeah … and that usually can speed up the process as well.

Yeah. Oh,

Dan Drews: interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so kind of an indirect or a domino effect, if you would.

Tom Heneghan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don’t- uh, there’s research, um, I think in Europe based off of this, just on my own personal experience, but it’s still something that there’s a lot more to be discovered about it. But yeah, hearing loss and socialization tend to also go hand-in-hand, and can lead to some of the advances of the disease.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Is there anything else on the Illinois slide

Tom Heneghan: here too?

Dan Drews: [00:31:00] I, I was gonna… You were telling us beforehand about-

Tom Heneghan: Yeah …

Dan Drews: just locally in DuPage

Tom Heneghan: County. Yeah, locally. Yeah. So in DuPage County, there’s nearly 20,000 people living with the disease.

Dan Drews: Wow.

Tom Heneghan: And, um, one of the most impressive things though is, um, a lot of the stuff that Hadi talks about is she does all this programming, community education.

It’s all free.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm.

Tom Heneghan: And what she’s been able to do, her and her group of volunteers, they’ve o- last year in 2025, we reached over 3,500 people attended some type of education session, uh, program that Hadi and her volunteers put on. We also have care and support, like support groups- Mm-hmm … and over 230 people participated in those, which is really good as we talked earlier- Mm

about the peer-to-peer model, and just like you’re talking to people that are going through it the same time as you, or have already been through it, or maybe you’re the mentor to somebody who’s new to it. And then of course, our helpline, we’re able to track how many people from DuPage Co- County use the helpline, and it would averages out to be about one, one person a day.

Wow. Wow.

Brennen Roberts: Oh, wow.

Tom Heneghan: So

Dan Drews: it shows that-

Tom Heneghan: Mm-hmm … we’re both nationwide, but we’re also hyper-focused locally.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah.

Dan Drews: It’s a- Thank good- thank [00:32:00] goodness for your organization for that. I mean- Yeah,

Brennen Roberts: yeah. Yeah. I mean, even in DuPage County, I think the stats are that… I mean, it’s actually the, the age, like the 65 and over population is actually slightly higher in DuPage County- Right

than it is nationally, and I think it’s gonna be like 23% by 2030 is what it’s expected to be. Wow. So you think about that. Almost 23% of the population is 65 and over, which we-

Tom Heneghan: And then a third of them likely will have

Brennen Roberts: dementia. Yeah, yeah. So it’s, it’s- Mm. You know, it hits home.

Dan Drews: Um, well, as we’re kind of going through this conversation, some of the things we’ve touched on are some of the warning signs.

Uh, why don’t you walk us through a little bit on some of the key things that family members should be looking for? I know, Hadi, you kind of talked about that from some personal experience, but, uh, this slide kind of illustrates- Mm-hmm … a lot of those warning signs.

Hadi Finnerty: The first one is always memory loss that disrupts your daily life.

Mm-hmm. If people are like, “Well, how would I know?” You will know. It’s something significant. The cookies,

Dan Drews: for example.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. The cookies. Yeah. Or [00:33:00] you ha- you’re holding the keys to your car and you’re thinking, “What am I supposed to do with these keys?”

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: Well, most of us know turn on, turn your car on. Um, so that’s the number one thing.

And then, you know, difficulty completing those familiar tasks, like again, the cookies or someone that’s, you know, has a budget and all of a sudden they’re missing, they’re paying their bills. They’re starting to get final notices coming in. Um, and they used to be able to keep track, now they can’t keep track of those monthly bills.

Um, a, a, a lot of stuff that we see is confusion with time or place. So 60% of individuals that have Alzheimer’s or dementia wander-

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm …

Hadi Finnerty: and oftentimes it’s because, two, where does their longterm memory go? You know, I talked about, like, my grandma and she always wanted to go home, but it’s, we see that.

Like, “I wanna go home. When am I going home?” The home to them can be anywhere, and there’s a goal in mind, like, “I’m getting there no matter what.” Mm-hmm. Um, and it’s just the seasons, right? So we know it’s summer [00:34:00] now- Mm … but they can look outside and not know what the season is, and they’re now getting dressed up like it’s winter.

Brennen Roberts: Mm. Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Um- Yeah … you know, I think sometimes too, like, their, the social filter is gone, so now they’re starting to talk very loudly about people and maybe they’ve never done that before. Um, even driving, one of the things here is, um, trouble understanding visual images and spatial relationships. I can’t tell you how many times I have people tell me one of my number one clues or signs, I could, should say, was all of the dents on my spouse’s car-

Dan Drews: Mm

Hadi Finnerty: or my parent’s car.

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Because, you know, they would… I, I rem- I will never forget, I had a lady, and this was very early on when I first started, she said, “We would drive to church every Sunday, and I noticed one Sunday that my husband had, like, three new dents on the side of his car. And when I asked him about it, he said, ‘Oh, it was the, uh, grocery cart at the store.’

Then the next day, ‘Oh, you know, the neighborhood kids always ride their bikes into my car.'” So [00:35:00] they drove to church this Sunday, and she said it was only a six-mile trip. On the way there, he blew through a stop sign because you can’t determine color and contrast with this.

Brennen Roberts: Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: He stopped hundreds of feet before a stoplight and, and he was driving in between two of the lanes, and she said on the way there he almost took out a s- a mailbox too.

Brennen Roberts: Mm. Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: So then she’s like, “I knew in that moment what was really happening.” Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: Yes.

Hadi Finnerty: So it’s, you know, you’ll start to see the spatial images are gone. Um, new words with, you know, new words and s- not new words. New problems- … with words and speaking. Um, I don’t like … This isn’t something to joke about, but we all have those moments.

We’re like, “What was I just gonna say?” Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I often do that.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: Um, and the word eventually comes to us. Here, they’re always searching for that word.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Or, you know, we … A lot of times they might be like, “Oh, this is my hand clock,” instead of, “This is my watch.” So they’re making up, you know, their own vocabulary words.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Tom mentioned isolation. Right. We’re gonna see [00:36:00] a, a lot of that. Maybe, you know, their friends are starting to call them out, so why be embarrassed? I, I’ll just stay home from, you know, going to those social things. Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: Or you- Yeah … you forget, like, I don’t wanna be in a social setting ’cause I, I can’t remember people’s names.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: Or it’s

Tom Heneghan: loud noises,

Brennen Roberts: probably. I’m embarrassed- Yeah … or something bothers you- Yeah … so I’m not gonna go, and then you become isolated, and then it becomes a- Yep. Yeah … it’s a rough thing, so. Yeah, your ta- story about, like, driving. Like, everybody jokes about, like, the bad- Yeah. … drives. That, like, it might not just be bad driving.

I remember- Right … my, my father was not diagnosed with that before he passed, but he, but I do remember he lived a couple hours away, but got a couple single car accidents. Like, thankfully he was okay and he didn’t hurt somebody else, but, you know, it was one of those things. It’s always one of the biggest problems people have is, like, how do I take the keys away from Mom and Dad- Right

before they-

Hadi Finnerty: Right …

Brennen Roberts: hurt themselves or somebody else? ‘Cause that’s, that is a huge step- Oh … where they lose their independence.

Hadi Finnerty: And of course, I like to point out we all have typical age-related moments, right? Like, we’ve all have those moments. Mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: Mm.

Hadi Finnerty: [00:37:00] Um, it, this is gonna be pronounced. So, uh, people will be like, “Well, I don’t remember where I put my keys.”

Retrace your steps. You have the ability. If, you know, I always … Tom hears me talk about this all the time. There’s so many times I’m getting my kids in the car, I’m throwing in my bags for work, and I’m halfway down the block, and I’m thinking, “Did I shut my garage door?” Yeah.

Dan Drews: Oh. All the time. I

Hadi Finnerty: did that today.

And then I drive … Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I drive back around 99% of the time it’s shut. So yes, we do have typical age-related moments, but the ones that we saw before, those are the most common ones to really pay attention to.

Dan Drews: Well, please tell me there’s a little light at the end of the tunnel, right? When we talk about the treatments for Alzheimer’s, what can people be doing, and do we have some progressions in medicine that hopefully give us hope?

Hadi Finnerty: I know this is your favorite topic.

Tom Heneghan: Well, I love talking about that. Uh, I joked with you guys earlier, but it’s like, um, you know, when you’re a brilliant doctor, you discover a disease, they name it after you. So Dr. Alzheimer is a real person- Mm-hmm … and he discovered the plaques in the [00:38:00] brain back in 1906.

The first treatment for any of the symptoms was until 1906, or- Wow … until 1996. So we went 90 years- Wow. Wow … with no effective treatment at all, other than just putting people in a home or ignoring them, what have you. And since then, we’ve been developing, not we, but I mean, doctors have been developing drugs to help treat the symptoms.

But it’s not until the last couple of years, this is where Hanni knows way more than I do- Mm-hmm … but we, there’s actually now drugs that directly address the disease state. Now, they’re not a cure, but what they can do is slow the progression down, and you kind of get to a new normal for a longer period of time with your loved one.

Um, and you’ll see that they’re, uh, infusion-based, I believe, right?

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. So there is hope.

Dan Drews: Well, when people are trying to grab hold of that hope-

Hadi Finnerty: Mm-hmm …

Dan Drews: and really want to take charge of their brain health, talk to us a little bit about other things they should be doing and, and some coaching you might give them.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. I, I like to say it’s never too early or [00:39:00] too late to adopt any kind of healthy habit. What we’re seeing is 45% of dementia cases could be delayed by following a lot of these modifiable risk factors. Um, so, you know, here we talk about our 10 healthy habits. The association, we’re moving more toward, like, brain health, right?

Like, what can people do? All of us in this room, anyone, we don’t have to have this disease Mm-hmm. Um, and they really are focusing on s- some of the stuff that we’re all doing right now, right? Social engagement we know is so important. People do not do well in isolation, so, you know, being in- Mm-hmm … part of clubs or something to get more active.

Um, diet and nutrition is a key thing. Right now they’re focusing on the MIND diet, which is like the Mediterranean diet.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: Um, really f- on dark leafy vegetables, berries, um,

Dan Drews: What about mental activities like puzzles and- Yeah … things like that? Is that part of the equation? Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. So it is [00:40:00] part of it, doing something to challenge your brain.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: I always say if you brush your teeth with your right hand, trick your brain, brush your teeth with your left. Do tr- I mean, I’ve had to do that now because I can’t really use my right hand. So using my left hand has been challenging, but now I’m used to it, right? Yeah. I’m like, “Okay, I think I can switch on and off.”

Yep. Um, use that left part of your brain or, you know, many years ago people used to take a map to get to their destination. Yeah. They’re actually saying like, “Take a map. Get to your…” I mean, I couldn’t do it. I’d be in Wisconsin. Yeah. But, you know, use a map. Um, but, you know, pick up a new Hadi. Um, a lot- New language.

Yeah, a new language. Mm-hmm, language. Right. Uh, ongoing l- formal ongoing learning.

Dan Drews: Yep. Um- Well, this slide you put together I think- Yes … really illustrates it well, right? Uh, and even s- ’cause some common sense stuff like the upper left-hand corner, protect your head, right? Right. Going out bicycling. Yep. I mean, it, it seems kind of common sense, but I see people riding bikes- Same

and everything else [00:41:00] too, and, uh, I’m sure a brain, uh, a shot to the brain is not gonna be helping- Right … the situation. Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Right. So, yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Dan Drews: So

Hadi Finnerty: a lot of these things we know, and what they’re encouraging, average adults need 2 hours and 30 minutes a week of physical exercise.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Hadi Finnerty: With two of those days being just, like, strength and toning.

So people look at this and they think, “Okay, I’m doing pretty good,” but it’s important to keep building on these healthy habits.

Dan Drews: Well, and even when you talked about the brain health recipe and the Mediterranean diet and stuff too, it’s fascinating to think to how about all these things basically swirl into one recipe for trying to-

Tom Heneghan: Yeah

Dan Drews: help you live longer and more conscious too. Mm-hmm. I think the, the health monitoring part of this slide I think is really kind of interesting too, why regular checkups and checking in with your doctor and weight monitoring and things like that, that never occurred to me how that can be a big part of the equation too.

Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Yep.

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: Oftentimes [00:42:00] people get a diagnosis like, “Oh, you have high cholesterol,” and they think, “Well, I’m not gonna do anything about it.” Mm-hmm. And then they continue on. So we’re encouraging people, um, from the US POINTS study, which was a lifestyle intervention study the association took part of, these were the four components that these individuals focused on, and what we saw was the people that were in the structured lifestyle part of the trial, their brains were one to two years younger than what they really are.

Dan Drews: Fascinating.

Hadi Finnerty: So, we had people going in 60 to 79 years old. I had a volunteer, she was 63 when she went in. She’s like, “My brain is like a 61-year-old at this point.”

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Hadi Finnerty: So, it helps.

Dan Drews: It’s fascinating too. It makes me reflect. There’s a documentary, uh, I think it was on Netflix, called, like, Blue Zones- Yeah … where people live longer and stuff too.

Yeah. And some of the things you- Yes … touched on were their diet- Mm-hmm … and then also their social interaction. You know, there was this… It was either Greece or Italy- Yep … that they didn’t have senior homes, and the seniors would just live [00:43:00] in the house, and that type of interaction continued to kind of fuel their longevity- Mm-hmm

as they

talked

Brennen Roberts: about too. Yeah. Pretty amazing. Yeah. I mean, it’s… Sorry, I was just gonna say, it’s interesting for us at least, you know, we, we try to have, like, active, mature caregivers. And honestly, we try to say that, like, the caregivers, like, give as much as they receive. Oh, absolutely. And, and, and part of it is, like, we have some people, obviously you’re maybe retired and you want to stay active and engaged and, you know.

But, but just, like, caring for somebody else is- Exactly … part of that. And companionship, you’re out helping and doing stuff. So they’re actually benefiting themselves by helping other people. Yeah. It’s a nice model.

Tom Heneghan: Yeah. There’s, uh, research that shows that, um, seniors do better when they take care of their grandkids.

So- Mm. I just, I’m just putting it out there.

Brennen Roberts: Keeps

Tom Heneghan: you young at heart.

Dan Drews: Keeps you young at

Tom Heneghan: heart. Yeah. I believe

Dan Drews: it.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Drews: Well, I, I’m constantly amazed too at how technology pieces can kind of help us educate it too, and Alzheimer’s Association is no different too. You guys have support features, [00:44:00] including, uh, an app it looks like too, in order to help the community with this disease.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Hadi Finnerty: Yeah. So this is My Alz Journey, and I think the w- the thing that’s helpful, yes, it’s free, but it helps caregivers. We’ve all probably heard, “How do I get my loved one to take a shower? They’re resisting,” right? Um, you can go in there and it gives you tips on, on how to do that, right?

Or, “How do I take the keys away from my loved one?” Again, they give you tips. So it connects the individuals with chapter resources and, like, how to kind of navigate those hard lifestyle, not lifestyle, hard, um- See, look Yeah, it’s almost all

Brennen Roberts: of it, right?

Hadi Finnerty: I think you may talk, talk it up for me, Tom. Well, at

Brennen Roberts: least you didn’t say it

Tom Heneghan: in Irish.

Sure,

Brennen Roberts: yeah.

Tom Heneghan: Well, I will say what’s great about the app too is it’s, we’ll ask you questions about your loved one, for instance, and it’s a sliding scale. So it’s like, do they need help, reminders with showering? Like, 1 is never, 5 is always, and it helps you kind of realize where they’re [00:45:00] at approximately. Oh, interesting.

And it, it’s just another extension of our helpline. But, you know, for some people, they don’t wanna call, they don’t wanna do… And it’s just very great, ’cause I’ve used it as a way to kind of just get an idea of ballpark where my dad might be, ’cause I’m not a neurologist. Mm-hmm. I’m not that smart. So this really helps me figure this out, and it just gives me a better sense of like, you know, like how you said tips- Yeah

hints or what to expect.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. A kind of a cursory assessment, if you will.

Tom Heneghan: Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: Yeah. So… Yeah. Well, t- you talk about help, um, this is right in your wheelhouse here. Yeah. The Walk to End Alzheimer’s is, uh, one of the big initiatives of the organization. Talk to us about that and how people can, uh, what it is and how people can get involved.

Sure. Yeah.

Tom Heneghan: So one of the best things about Walk, there’s walks throughout this nation. There’s over 600 walks. W- the Walk to End Alzheimer’s is the second biggest peer-to-peer fundraiser in the nation.

Brennen Roberts: Mm.

Tom Heneghan: So what’s really cool about that is we get all these people throughout the US participating, but then we do it here locally in DuPage.

We do it at North Central [00:46:00] College football stadium. What’s also amazing- Mm … just like all of our education, our app, our helpline, it’s actually free to sign up. So that’s what we do. If you wanna earn incentives, you wanna get a, like I see you have an Owala. Mm-hmm. If you wanted an Owala, you could… There’s incentives throughout the season.

If you raise a certain amount of money in this time period, you can get it. You’ll get your shirt or other incentives. There’s a lot of ways that we encourage people to fundraise. But again, it’s not required. But what’s great is it’s free, and it’s a community. Over 1,400 people come out, and there’s the people like Hottie and her volunteers are there with the care and support information, with the program information.

Wow. We have a caregiver’s tent in which we recognize the caregivers. We have, uh, the champions, like our best fundraisers- Mm … get, like, a little special recognition, the top teams. We have sponsors there, but really, a lot of people love the flower ceremony, which is our pinwheel flowers. Each color represents your relationship to the disease.

Wow. And we have a little bit of a program that goes along with that, and you’ll see towards the end of the program, every single person’s holding up their flower. That means every single [00:47:00] person there can relate to each other in some way, shape, or form, and you have this community that you didn’t realize was in your own backyard, and it’s a very powerful moment.

Yet the walk is a, is a component of it, but it’s not a big, long walk. It’s meant- Yeah … for all ages, abilities. And what’s great about the walk is you go to here in DuPage or somewhere else, they all look approximately the same. They have their local flavor, like we usually have the marching band drumline- Mm-hmm

send us off. The cheerleaders cheering people on the way to the route and on their way back from the route, and it’s just… it’s a great family affair. We have an area for the kids to go have fun and hang out, and I just think overall, it’s… it builds this community. And oftentimes, when people are looking for help and resources, the walk’s the first time they realize everything that Alzheimer’s Association does, ’cause they think they’re just coming to a walk or a 5K, and they don’t realize that there’s a lot more to it than just that.

There’s all these resources right here, right there for you, and that’s when they learn about what we could do to help.

Dan Drews: And when’s the DuPage event coming up?

Tom Heneghan: It’s, uh, October 4th. It’s, uh, Sunday. It’s gonna be, um, you know, another [00:48:00] hopefully beautiful day. Um, but it’s right along the riverfront. You walk out of the football sta- riverfront neighborhoods and come back around.

And, uh, hopefully we’ll have some cool, like, things that, well, I haven’t, uh- confirmed yet, but we’ll usually- … do a little local flavor to make it kind of fun. Some of it. That’s great. Yeah. Uh, so- And

Dan Drews: we’ve got the QR code

Tom Heneghan: here- Yes … if

Dan Drews: people

Tom Heneghan: need

Dan Drews: to- Yep … get some more information

Tom Heneghan: on it. Yeah. Yes, you can scan the QR code and it will bring you to our website.

My contact information’s there. If you’re interested in stuff that Hadiya offers, you can obviously contact me as well, ’cause I work hand-in-hand with

Brennen Roberts: Hadiya. Yeah. And we’ll put the link to it in the, uh- Yeah … the, the, the description of the video, but- Great … yeah, it’s great. I, I love that so, uh, a l- a lot of times these walks and stuff, people think they’re intimidating or challenging, but it’s so inclusive.

Yes. Mm-hmm. You know, again, you see that you’re not alone, you know, there’s a whole community there, and there’s great organizations like you guys-

Dan Drews: As we said … helping

Brennen Roberts: out.

Dan Drews: It takes a village, right? It takes

Brennen Roberts: a village. Yes.

Dan Drews: Well, on that note too, when you talk about helping too, you guys have a whole system and network to try and help folks too.

Why don’t you walk us through this a little [00:49:00] bit. If, if it’s either people experiencing, uh, problems or the family members, what’s the best way they can reach out for help?

Hadi Finnerty: I always direct them to our 24-hour helpline. Um, it’s master level clinicians that are there. They can help, of course, with information and referral, but they can also help within those moment needs too, right?

How… I’m starting to see some warning signs. Where- what are my next steps? And people that also are seeing the signs in themselves, they can call. They can navigate. You know, like, maybe, you know, this should be your next step when you talk to your doctor, ask the, the list of questions. Or how do you talk to your loved one about, “Hey, I’m starting to notice that you have these sympt- or these signs.”

Um, so our 24-hour helpline, and the number there is 800-272-3900. And then, of course, you know, we’ve talked about, but we have programs in the community. So yes, uh, um, we have brain health programs, but we also have programs for caregivers too. Um, and then la- and, uh, we have support groups, um, in [00:50:00] DuPage County as well to really help the community, um, so that they don’t feel like they’re by themselves.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I think a lot of we, when we talk with Courtney at AARP- Yeah … a lot of people always think of it as this anonymous national organization, and they don’t realize how- Oh, yeah … much people are doing- Mm-hmm … at the local level to help- Yeah … people on the ground and stuff, so that’s great.

Tom Heneghan: And a lot, and this is all free.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm.

Tom Heneghan: And I think too, when you realize there’s, there’s no obligation to do anything, but it’s free. So it’s why not take advantage of something that costs you nothing- Yeah … but your time.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. And if you have the means-

Tom Heneghan: Participate

Brennen Roberts: in the walk Yeah, yeah. Donates. If you not, can’t make it, donate so it can be free for everyone.

Yep, yep. So.

Dan Drews: Well, Tom and Hadi, thank you so much for joining us, too. We, we’ve covered a ton of topics here, too. Mm-hmm. Brennan, thanks for your sponsorship for this topic as well. I know you, your team, and your caregivers specialize in a lot of this, uh, caregiving service too for folks that are afflicted by this terrible disease.

So.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. You know, just families, they’re, they’re not alone. There’s [00:51:00] resources out there. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, part of the reason we sponsor this is so people are aware of what’s out there and available to them, ’cause th- they just don’t know. So it’s great and I w- I was just thinking about it as you guys were talking about the vision.

It’s not often people that have a j- their job is to put themselves out of a job, really. Yep, yep. So, you know, hopefully you’ll achieve that vision and then you’ll be like, “Oh, okay. Where do I turn my talents to next?” Kind of thing. But, uh- Exactly … but I, but I love it. Thank you for everything you guys

Hadi Finnerty: do.

Thank you for having us. Yeah.

Dan Drews: It’s great.

Brennen Roberts: Thank you.

Dan Drews: Well, and thank you again for taking the time today to help our efforts to find ways to assist seniors to age in place in their golden years. Brennan, as always, we appreciate you and Seniors Helping Seniors as their sponsorship of this, uh, program on the Naperville Area Guide.

Uh, we look forward to all of our viewers joining us next time for our next fantastic guest, and look for more of our content. To check us out on Facebook and our YouTube page at [00:52:00] Seniors Helping Seniors Greater Naperville. Until then, folks, remember, it takes a village, so do your part in the village, and thank you for joining us.

All right. And we’ll talk

a lot later. Faint hello there. Yeah. Yeah. So. You guys did fantastic. Oh, Tom, thank you. Superb job. Very well done. Very well articulated. Thank you. Great job. Super, super easy conversation and stuff. Very

Dan Drews: In three, two Hello, everyone, and welcome to Aging in Place, the Greater Naperville Area’s family guide.

Dan Drews: Our goal here is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle-aged adults, typically in their 40s or 60s, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting their aging parents while raising their own children. We want to help parents age gracefully as possible and reduce stress through education and community connection.

Dan Drews: It takes a village, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover through expert guests in our local area. I am your host, Dan Drews, and with me is my co-host and sponsor, Mr. Brennen Roberts, the owner of Seniors Helping Seniors for the Greater Naperville Area. And we also want to thank one of our other great supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who is a great [00:01:00] advocate for all businesses that support seniors in the Naperville area.

Dan Drews: Brennen, good to see you again. How’s everything at Seniors Helping Seniors? 

Brennen Roberts: Uh, it’s great. It’s great. So, I mean, this is a topic that’s super interesting for me. You know, we, uh, provide in-home care to help seniors live independently as long as possible, so that can be in the home they grew up in and lived for the last 50 years, or it could be in independent living.

Brennen Roberts: And, you know, we see homes in various states of livability and, you know, we look for, obviously, you know, fall assessments and risks, but, you know, the ability to get to these houses and memories down to more manageable, smaller places is, is, is a huge part of things, and families have a lot of worries on their minds.

Brennen Roberts: So the fact that there’s people out there like yourselves that can help take care of this is great. 

Dan Drews: Well, Brennen, thank you again for all you do and, uh, your, uh, your business, Seniors [00:02:00] Helping Seniors in the Naperville area. It’s fantastic stuff. And folks, we are joined today to help us with this topic and focus our show today on how to prepare your parents and yourself for the critical steps involved with seniors transitioning to a new home and some legacy planning.

Dan Drews: And joining us here today is Tammy Bilek. She is a certified senior move manager and the owner of Honoring Aging. Since 2005, she’s helped hundreds of seniors and families navigate life transitions with care, expertise, and a passion for making new spaces feel like home. And with her is Mr. Michael Bilek.

Dan Drews: He is co-owner of Honoring Aging and serves as both a move manager and an after loss professional. With a background in sales and client services, Michael brings calm leadership and practical support to every transition, whether managing a move or guiding families through the [00:03:00] next steps after a loss.

Dan Drews: Thank you so much for both of you being here. We appreciate it. Uh, tell us a little bit about Honoring Aging and how you even got into this business, a business I didn’t even know existed until- Mm-hmm … I met 

Tammy Bilek: your company. Yeah, we hear that often. So, um, our business has been in existence for 22 years. Um, I’ve had the privilege to work with it and for it, and now own it, for 21 years.

Tammy Bilek: I was an employee first for 13 years, and then Michael and I purchased the company, um, eight years ago. So we have helped seniors downsize and relocate, and it’s ve- First of all, gratifying, right? The way that they treat us, and just helping them th- navigate through this very stressful part of their life has been, you know, just a blessing to myself.

Tammy Bilek: Um, I can’t see myself working or retiring anywhere else. So, um, just kinda like big bird’s-eye picture of like what we do and what that looks like. Um, so I was one of the [00:04:00] first four employees of Honoring Aging. Um, and now we have 30 employees. We’re based out of St. Charles, and we work all over Chicagoland helping families and individuals downsize, relocate to whether it’s moving from home to home, or it’s moving from inde- so their current home into independent living or even assisted living or memory care.

Tammy Bilek: And then also it can include that we’re putting an estate to rest. So once they move and get settled, what are we doing with the leftovers? So we’re helping and guiding them through that entire process. Almost think of it as, um, the wedding planner of the moving industry. So all of the little details someone has to manage.

Tammy Bilek: So that is where we come in and, and help those seniors and families take care of all of the details. So last year we helped 420 individuals- Wow … um, with their process, so. 

Dan Drews: That’s great. Well, the wedding planner analogy really hits home for me with a, a [00:05:00] son getting ready to get married and all the moving parts.

Dan Drews: I can imagine that part of advisement and guidance has got to be just absolutely invaluable for these families too, so. 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely. 

Brennen Roberts: I, I imagine there’s… I think we were talking about it earlier, there’s a lot of chaos that goes on, and sounds like you as the move management can help shield families- Yeah

Brennen Roberts: from that chaos. So. 

Tammy Bilek: Also, the chaos coordinator we’ve been called. Yeah. The, the blue angels as we wear blue shirts. You know, different things. So yeah, absolutely. And we just want to be a resource for, you know, whether it’s the family member or the individual moving or even, you know, someone like yourself Brennen- Mm-hmm

Tammy Bilek: like, “Okay, I think it’s, it’s time for this person to…” You know, who’s going to help them if they don’t have local family to come in and help with that service? 

Dan Drews: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Michael, I’ve got a question for you. Mm-hmm. One of the things I, I read in your bio there was, uh, after loss professional. K- what, what does that mean, or what does that encompass as being an after loss professional?

Michael Bilek: Yeah, that’s a great question. So an after lo- [00:06:00] oss- after loss professional, really we’ve got two aspects to it. One of them is legacy planning. Let’s get our stuff together in order for our kids when that time does come so that it’s easier for our children and our loved ones to handle our estate, right? Um, it takes an average of, or at least a, a minimum of 500 to 570 hours to actually put an estate to rest- 

Dan Drews: Wow

Michael Bilek: over 18 months. So the idea is, let’s get things planned ahead of time and take that burden off of our kids and our loved ones. Then there’s a second part of it. Um, when we do… when someone does pass away is, is helping that executor or helping that trustee, um, through, walk through the process. Literally could be hand-holding, doing proxy work, going to the bank, going to the attorneys with them, and making sure things are settled and handled in the proper way.

Michael Bilek: We are not attorneys, we’re not accountants, we’re not financial advisors, but like we’re the wedding planner for the move, I’m kind of like the wedding planner for that after loss, right? Make sure all the resources are pulled together for that person and that everything is, is put together. That way the person [00:07:00] or the family can focus on grieving their loved one, which is really where their process needs to be.

Michael Bilek: They don’t have to worry about the details. Was the insurance contacted? Have the paperwork been sent? We take care of all that, making sure that it goes for them. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. I, and I’ve got to imagine that’s gotta be invaluable when your head and your heart is all over the map- Mm-hmm … after you’ve just lost a loved one.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: But I love the idea of you said planning ahead- Yeah … because, you know, as we have these conversations, you know, we talked about estate planners or financial advisors, and that seems to be the common theme- Right … for anybody of our sandwich generation. It’s like- Yeah … start the conversations early.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. You know, don’t wait until you’re in a state of chaos or, you know, you’ve lost. So, you know, have those conversations now when your parents are capable of it. 

Dan Drews: And so- Well, sure. Brennen, I know you’ve kind of alluded to the story before, but you could have really used their services, uh, back in the day with your, with your dad’s situation.

Brennen Roberts: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was, I was telling you that I, again, it… I’m one of those… W- what was the number? It was, like, 60% of caregivers- Yeah … live, like, over an [00:08:00] hour. Right. So I was like that for my father- Mm-hmm … and trying to help manage his transitions from home to- Assisted living and nursing home to eventually passing away, and then having to help clear out the home- 

Michael Bilek: Right

Brennen Roberts: uh, from a distance was just extremely difficult. Yeah. And working full time, trying to find the time to do it. And when you actually went to do it, you know, I think, you know, I was telling you my dad had basically one room, his office- Mm … which was whatever, lifetime’s worth of stuff- Yeah … which was meaningful to him, but not really for anybody else.

Brennen Roberts: Right. Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: And 

Brennen Roberts: just having to go into this one room, smaller than the room we’re in right now, it was, you know, a f- at least a day’s work, of work for me. And, uh, I just… Yeah, it was, uh, I’m sure I over-purged, you know, at some point. Yeah. You know, you start off with the good intentions, but then afterwards you’re like, “Okay, just gonna swoop these papers in.”

Brennen Roberts: Uh, may- Right … I hopefully I didn’t throw anything out that was needed. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah … 

Brennen Roberts: but. 

Tammy Bilek: Kinda look at the top and look at the [00:09:00] bottom and like, “Okay, I feel pretty good-

Dan Drews: about the whole stack going.” Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and Michael and Tammy, questions for you. Do you, do you get that very often where the kids live in Ohio or Michigan or somewhere far away, and you have to do a lot of the local heavy lifting? Is that one of the dynamics you face very often? 

Michael Bilek: Yeah. Uh- Absolutely

Michael Bilek: re- very, very regularly we handle that. Uh, sometimes it’s even moving a mom or dad or for our parents from out of state. Maybe they’ve, they’ve been in- Ah … in Arizona, but they want to move back closer later in life to their kids. So we’ll actually help coordinate that whole out of state move. But oftentimes families in this generation have separated.

Michael Bilek: Work has taken them to different parts of the country. And so it’s, it’s the families find it a lot more easy on them as well as their parents when they can just have someone like us come in and, and be their pseudo children for- Right … for a, uh, for a period of time to help with that transition. And then even when things don’t go great for that, um- They’re mad at us.

Michael Bilek: We walk away and we’re done. They still get to have great Christmas dinner or [00:10:00] Thanksgiving dinner with their family. They don’t have to worry 

Brennen Roberts: about being the bad person there. Yeah, that’s great. We, we always tell people, I always tell people that if, uh, we want to help take the burden off of families.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Absolutely. I say, “I want you guys to remain… Be a son and a daughter first- Yeah … and, uh, not a caregiver.” Right. “So let us take that burden off you, and then you guys focus on being family and, uh, we’re helping in lots of ways.” And 

Tammy Bilek: there’s so many levels to it, right? It isn’t just, okay, we’ve moved mom and dad, they’re settled, everything’s great.

Tammy Bilek: It’s like now about the leftovers of the home. Like, what is happening? Mm-hmm. What’s the, what’s the local resource when they’re living in Texas that they don’t know who, that we should call Restoration Ministries or Chicago Furniture. You know, like, they don’t have those connections. They’re just like, “Okay, I have to empty this house because I need it on the market.

Tammy Bilek: Do I have an estate sale? Do I send things to consignment or do I need a junk ha- … Like, what do I need? And by the way, I have three days.” 

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Now, uh, Tammy, in those situations, as part of your job, [00:11:00] family referee, right? When you got Janie and Jimmy and Johnny, like, all fighting or disagreeing- Mm … on how things- Yeah

Dan Drews: do you ever have to- Mm-hmm … put on the referee whistle and, and try and navigate that? 

Tammy Bilek: I do. Um, I always remember that- The senior normally is my client, right? So what are their wishes? If, you know, the daughter’s trying to push like, “Oh, we should take this set of furniture or this end table or this TV.” Well, Dad hasn’t turned that TV on in three years, right?

Tammy Bilek: He doesn’t even know how… You know, this is his key zone. We’ll talk more about that. Mm-hmm. And it’s important to replicate, like, how we currently live. Like, you come home, home on the weekend, you know, here and there, and it’s like you’re just seeing a little glimpse of how Dad lives. Mm-hmm. Where we can recognize pretty quickly of, like, you know, this is the key zone with the end table next to the recliner and the dog bed on the left side, right?

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. So it’s like what does that look like in our new place so we can mirror image how he currently lives. We respect that she [00:12:00] has an opinion, but it’s really, “Dad, how would… How do you see your new space really looking?” And that’s really important to talk directly to them because they’re the ones that are going to live there and love it.

Dan Drews: Yeah. I imagine, yeah, you have to walk gingerly, I’m sure, through some of those conversations, so. Absolutely. Well, Brennen, do you have a picture of my grandma’s place? Okay. This is one of the things, because I also had a situation like this, too. My grandmother passed away after she was 96 years old, and my dad was trying to, uh, find what to do, and her condo sat there for a couple years- Mm

Dan Drews: as we tried to figure out what to do. Yeah. And so I finally had to go down and make multiple trips. And, uh, the one on the right, picture on the right is kind of what I started with, and then the picture on the left is what I ended up clearing all out. And to Brennen’s point- Mm-hmm … plenty of big c- trash bags in there, too.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: But I found one of the things, I wonder if you guys could speak to this, is the difficulty, or I guess more of this, the understanding that I had to have for my dad, ’cause it [00:13:00] was his mom, that I had to have some patience to, um, I would probably go through it probably more, uh, expeditiously- Mm-hmm

Dan Drews: where he wanted to tell stories. And I know you guys have alluded to that, that, that it’s careful to … You have to be careful how to deal with the emotional side of this business. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. I would say 90% of moving is emotional in my opinion. You know? Because every item that you’re giving up, you’re grieving over that.

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? That was a part of your life for a certain amount of time, and you really have to allow yourself to say, “I have loved it long enough and it’s time to let it go.” 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: So you did a great job by the way, but I’ll t- use an example as a dining room table, and sometimes our clients have a really hard time giving up the dining room set, dining room table, China cabinet, buffet, you know, because it’s been a staple in their home for 40, 50, 68 years- Mm-hmm

Tammy Bilek: whatever that looks like. Um, and so I always ask the question first, [00:14:00] “Have you loved it long enough?” Right? That you have to allow yourself permission to let it go, and also visualize the next family member that you’re gonna donate it to- Mm … creating those same memories around that table. But just like if it was a card table for 50 years- Mm-hmm

Tammy Bilek: would we still have those same memories? 

Brennen Roberts: Yes. 

Tammy Bilek: We would. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So it is, we try to take the emotion aro- off of the item- 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm … 

Tammy Bilek: and say, you know, “You still have the memories down deep inside or even pictures of those memories. So the item we can let go,” but again, it’s giving yourself permission. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. I think, I think that part, it took me, it took me probably a half a day to really tune into that- 

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm

Dan Drews: on how important it was when my dad was moving slowly through it, that it was bringing back all these flood of memories and everything that went with it, too. 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely. 

Dan Drews: Uh, uh, in conjunction with my project that I had here, too- … I, I found it interesting, you told me you have, like, [00:15:00] 30 pages of vendors you deal with in all sorts of areas and stuff, too.

Dan Drews: Like, we had to call two guys in a junk truck, who were amazing by the way at, at the way they Tetris things, but your list of contacts has gotta be immense for whatever it is you’re gonna walk into. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. Absolutely. The moment that when I started about … This was happened about 20-ish years ago, when I didn’t have a resour- source for someone- Mm-hmm

Tammy Bilek: it was like, “Oh my goodness, why don’t I have an answer for them?” So that’s when we started, Amy and I started our resource list to make sure that if you have some … You know, like, you walk into a home and it’s like, “I really want my art appraised,” great. We have someone that will come in appraise just art.

Tammy Bilek: Don’t ask about the China, this is what they specialize in. Mm-hmm. Or to come out and let you know how much your silver, you know, can be bought for. And also, like, I have a garage full of styrofoam, how do I recycle that? Okay. Real question 

Dan Drews: Unusual [00:16:00] request, yeah 

Tammy Bilek: Right? But a real- But a real thing. Yeah. Okay.

Tammy Bilek: Wow Absolutely. He was in one of my presentations that I gave, and he goes, “I’ve just been saving it ’cause I know I shouldn’t throw it away.” Mm. So I found him, I just need where you live, a great resource to make sure that, that he can do that in the right way. Again, he wants to honor- 

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm … 

Tammy Bilek: you know, and recycle exactly what he is- has, um, has in their home, whatever that looks like.

Tammy Bilek: So it is also about, we work all over Chicagoland, so we want to have the right resource in their neck of the woods. Yeah. So if that’s in Evanston, if it’s here in Naperville, La Grange, Rockford, wherever that is, so that’s why it’s 30 pages. 

Dan Drews: Mm. Man, it’s… And it is interesting what people hold onto. Mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: Whether it’s collector plates or styrofoam, or you mentioned a professor that kept old, like, tests and- Tests … and, and homework assignments. Mm-hmm. It’s important to them for a reason. 

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: And you have to then navigate that reason, whatever it is. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: First of all, let them tell the story one more time.

Dan Drews: [00:17:00] Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? And sometimes by allowing them to tell the story makes it easier for them to part with that item. 

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: So whether it’s shredding the homework, right, that she assigned years ago, and yep, it’s time to shred it and let that go, or whether it’s the dog’s teeth that she kept for years and years-

Tammy Bilek: because it’s a, a, a memory. She loved that dog. But let’s just keep the picture of it and not the teeth of that dog. Mm-hmm. Or is it something that once the family hears the story, maybe this is something that they didn’t think that they wanted, but now that the story has, you know, brought really joy to them, that they should keep and pass on.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. I find that all the time with like- Relative stuff from my wife’s family, I might not know it, and like, “What are we doing with this old country club ice bucket?” You know, it’s kind of thing. You’re like, “Oh, oh, my grandmother won the ladies championship one year- Oh, fancy … and that was the prize.”

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. And stuff like, oh, that’s… You know, you look at it totally differently. Right. It used to be this kind of [00:18:00] gaudy looking thing. Be like, “Oh, okay.” Yeah. That’s I, I… Now I, now I understand. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah. I’m amazed by how much of your job is part psychology. And Brenda, if you take me to the next slide here too.

Dan Drews: Oh, oh, oh, we’re gonna, we’re gonna take a look at this topic right here. Yeah. We’ll come back to those pictures a little bit too, ’cause you guys- Yeah … have done some amazing work. But transfer trauma. Mm-hmm. Tell me a little bit about that and kind of what- Right … you know, what that is. 

Tammy Bilek: So transfer trauma or s- um, relocation stress syndrome, so either title means the same thing.

Tammy Bilek: So there is definitely a, a great, you know, definition behind it, but it’s also for me, like seeing it every day is like you’re kind of frozen in your stuff. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? And it’s like I can visualize myself living at Sunrise of Naperville. I think that is a great community. I can, you know, visualize myself going to dinner, but I’m stuck here, and I just can’t get there.

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. Right? Where [00:19:00] we’ll come in and, you know, my first question always to my client is, “How do you feel about moving?” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: You know? And what are the questions or the things that are keeping you up at night to not be able to get there in 30 days, right? So again, understanding and more importantly listening to…

Tammy Bilek: Just like when we helped my grandma move, she, she told me why she wanted to move, but I needed her whole family to hear that. ‘Cause there was many family members that didn’t want her to leave that chi- childhood home. 

Michael Bilek: Oh. 

Tammy Bilek: So to hear it as a family, “Grandma, why do you want to move?” “I don’t feel safe here anymore.”

Tammy Bilek: Right? Mm-hmm. So I couldn’t say that to the rest of the family. They’d be like, “Oh, you didn’t hear that right from Grandma.” But when it came out of her mouth, then all of a sudden everyone just seems to be on board with it. Mm. Right? So to really understand of like how do we get them, what does their pathway really look like, and how can we just assist them through that?

Dan Drews: Yeah. That’s a [00:20:00] powerful statement right there from Grandma, right? Yeah. “I don’t feel safe.” 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. And yeah, nobody’s gonna want that. 

Brennen Roberts: Uh, you… When we were talking earlier, Michael, you were talking about the, I don’t think we as a society initially appreciate how big of a change this can be for people.

Michael Bilek: Yeah. So, you know, it’s, it’s one of the top three for seniors. It’s one of the top three most stressful things they’ll go through. And right next to losing a spouse or losing a child, which both are really difficult things. Yeah. Younger folks like us think, “Oh, we’re just gonna pick up our stuff and move,” but oftentimes we’re moving to a bigger house, right, where we can create more memories and not give stuff up.

Michael Bilek: But we got to remember that this is a life- lifelong treasure that we’re helping folks recognize that they’re giving up. And like Tammy said earlier, it’s like they got to grieve over it, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and, and let them have that grief, just the same as a person would grieve over losing a wife or, or a spouse or a child.

Michael Bilek: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. That’s, uh … When you put it like that, it really hit home for me. You know, it’s like I … You recognize [00:21:00] in many cases people have … You know, it’s not just the home. Right. It’s not the stuff. It’s the neighbors, the neighborhood, their- place they go for breakfast. They’re, like, giving all of that up.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. And it’s such a… And, and in many cases it’s not because they want to, it’s because they have to- Yeah … or maybe family members are pushing them and stuff like that. So- Mm … that recognition that we need to have of, like, this, not… The significance of this- Yeah … is important. Yeah. 

Michael Bilek: We like to say we aren’t just packing boxes and moving boxes, we’re packing and moving a lifetime.

Michael Bilek: Oof. And that’s really what it is. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Wow. That’s impactful. 

Michael Bilek: Wow. 

Dan Drews: Well, Brennen, do me a favor. I don’t want to skip over that one before and after because I think this is amazing work. So Michael, to your point you just made, right? You’re, you’re packing a lifetime. Sometime that lifetime’s got a lot of stuff in it I’m sure.

Dan Drews: Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Right? So how do you guys go from kind of the before to the after? Like, are… Is there part of your brain that kind of has to erase all the clutter sometimes [00:22:00] you see to kind of understand where you need to get to? Or how does that, how does that work for you when you walk into a client’s house and see what the project entails?

Michael Bilek: I’m gonna let Tami answer that- … because she does a way better job- … at that specific thing than I do. Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: So

Tammy Bilek: going

Tammy Bilek: in and, and sorting… This was one of Amy’s clients that she helped with. And it could be meaning, yes, we’re moving them from this location to that location, but it could also mean that they’re aging in place, where they’ve just become a little messy, right? I’m [00:23:00] very guilty of that as well- Mm … when I don’t have enough time.

Tammy Bilek: And we just need to go in and help that. But if they are moving from A to B, whatever that looks like for them, and, you know, they’re looking at it from this very large bird’s-eye view, where I’m looking at it like, “Let’s talk about the furniture that’s going with us first.” And, and they’ll say, “Well, I w- I was thinking about taking that table.

Tammy Bilek: It’s smaller, and it came from my grandparents. I do have a couple of chairs for it.” And so it’s like, all right, then the kitchen table we’re not… So again, some negotiation- Mm … um, of discussion of items. So we always sel- start with a floor plan, right, for our clients. So that meaning that what’s going to… We measure the furniture for, in their current home, measure their new space, and what’s going to fit into that space.

Tammy Bilek: That floor plan that we present to them will actually start to visualize what their new home is going to look like, and it’s gonna get excited for them. 

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: So it’s like, oh, everything that you measured is going to fit in, right? So and [00:24:00] again, we do some coaching through that as- Yeah … we’re walking through the house.

Tammy Bilek: And, and as we start to look in literally every nook and cranny, ’cause we have to have a plan for those items that we’re looking at. So yes, are they going with us? Is, are we donating things? Are we having an estate sale? So lots of different avenues. “Well, I really wanted that bedroom set shipped to my daughter in Wyoming.

Tammy Bilek: Can you do that?” Absolutely, we can arrange that. Mm. So, or I had a recent client, she’s like, “I really want to save that chandelier because it was from my family.” So again, what does that look like? Mm. Again, that’s a small detail, but her mentioning it allows us to make that a part of our plan. 

Michael Bilek: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: So then what we do is we normally pack Two days, a day to two days before move date.

Tammy Bilek: So we’ll come in and pack everything that they’re taking with them, right? So either they have chosen to sort up until that date- Mm-hmm … which is a lot of decision-making. Or we will go in ahead [00:25:00] of time and help them sort through all of the items. So when we pull open the kitchen cabinet and there’s seven pie plates, I’ve never made seven pies all in one day.

Tammy Bilek: But there’s seven. Mm-hmm. Right? So we have to make a decision of are we keeping one, maybe two? Does… Like, I would pick the peach one, she’s gonna pick the metal one because it has family history, right? So we’ll go in and sort with them so we’re ready for pack day, and then they’ll sleep in their home the night of packing, so we’ll leave out essentials for them, and then move day morning, again, familiar faces there with them, making sure, like, did you eat breakfast that morning, where is Bandit’s leash and treats and, you know…

Tammy Bilek: Or do we need corral the cats? You know, whatever that- Mm-hmm … looks like. And then moving truck comes, get it all loaded, head over to the next location and completely unpack them. Wow. So it’s normally a two-day process for us, and that’s hard for them to visualize because they’re just thinking, “Well, I’ve lived in this house for 48 years.

Tammy Bilek: How are you gonna do this in two [00:26:00] days?” Mm-hmm. Because we don’t have a connection to their things. Mm-hmm. We’re just here to, yes, they’re in this space today, and tomorrow they’re in a smaller space, but we’re going to make it feel like home for you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. We do a lot of picture taking- Right … to make sure we recreate how they live.

Dan Drews: A- as you’re going through that sorting process- 

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm … 

Dan Drews: I would imagine you have to have your radar up for how physically and emotionally taxing it is for probably some of these people, too. Absolutely. Like, I remember as I’m going through my grandma’s stuff, like, my dad would get physically tired and almost a little emotionally tired.

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: And, uh, so we had to kind of engineer some breaks- Yeah … as we kind of went through it. Not- 

Michael Bilek: Absolutely … 

Dan Drews: and not g- go… Like for me, right, I wanted to go all day, long stretch, and I don’t think that was very feasible for him. 

Tammy Bilek: No. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Um, the biggest thing is hydration. 

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Like, first of all, as seniors in general, we…

Tammy Bilek: They don’t, I’m almost in that category- Mm-hmm … we don’t drink enough water- Mm-hmm … to keep ourselves hydrated. So we will make sure while we’re sorting, [00:27:00] they’re sitting in a chair saving energy, right? And they’re l- making decisions. “Yes, I want that. No, I don’t.” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Or more importantly, telling a quick story about something.

Tammy Bilek: We can’t tell stories about every item, but- … we want to hear some stories- Yeah … for sure. Um, and then of course stopping, taking a break for lunch if we need to do that. While they’ve made a lot of decisions, we can do some packing through that. But then also it’s three to five hours, right? Mm. And usually more three to four.

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. Right? And th- that’s when our brain is like I’m done. And it’s important to recognize that and recognize when they, when they need a break as well. Mm. So our team is very in tune to that. Um, and then also too, like, if there is any type of memory issues going on, we had some dementia training from LaVon not too long ago, so our team is also aware of that as well.

Tammy Bilek: And most of the time, even for myself, we’re really pretty good in the morning. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm, mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Yep. Later in the day, not so great. We 

Brennen Roberts: all run out of steam 

Tammy Bilek: at that 

Brennen Roberts: point. Exactly. So… 

Tammy Bilek: So again, we recognize those things. Mm. So [00:28:00] it’s important to start 9:00, 10:00 o’clock in the morning and get a lot of things done in a short amount of time.

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: You own about 330,000 items in your current home. Oof. Holy cow. So 

Brennen Roberts: that’s a lot of decision-making. That is a lot of decisions. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Are, are there ever times where you can feel the, um, the older person’s frustration and have to, like, call a timeout and take- Mm … take a unplanned break just because that anxiety or- Yeah

Dan Drews: emotional part’s getting too high? 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. And it’s okay to stop- 

Dan Drews: Yeah … 

Tammy Bilek: and sit down and say, “What’s really going on?” 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Like, because it’s not normally about what we’re doing, it’s about the grief that they’re going through. 

Dan Drews: Mm. Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So it is that even though it’s a cup or, you know, a, a picture album we haven’t looked at in 50 years, but it’s still each one of those items that we’re saying yes or no to, it’s a grieving process.

Tammy Bilek: And sometimes we just need to stop and say- Okay, let’s just talk about how you’re [00:29:00] feeling. 

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Because that is the biggest part of this, is our emotion. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It’s funny, I look at this. Now, this is maybe not what you’re getting into, but I see a lot of, like, storage- 

Tammy Bilek: Mm … 

Brennen Roberts: for seniors needs to sh- transition in many cases.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I walk in, you see people that, like, in this case probably it’s all under counter storage. Yeah. And as you start losing your mobility, you’re not going to be bending over to get it or- Right, 

Tammy Bilek: reaching on the counter … 

Brennen Roberts: I was in a kitchen this morning, and this old lady has this cabinet, it’s way up here.

Brennen Roberts: I’m like, “Well, she can’t even reach that,” you know? Right. Mm-hmm. So she’s not going to climb up a step stool, so- No. 

Tammy Bilek: Everything’s on the 

Brennen Roberts: counter … so, so, so a house might have worked great for her, you know- Yeah … 10 years ago or even five years ago, but that kind of thing doesn’t work now, so- 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah … 

Brennen Roberts: you know, if you are staying in place, sometimes you just need to take a fresh look at how you organize and store- Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … things and stuff, so. 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely. 

Dan Drews: Brennen, let, I want to talk a little bit about, uh, the long distance folks too, right? So we kind of talked about it before, Michael, when, uh, too we’re talking about you got the, the son or the [00:30:00] daughter live in Ohio or Wyoming or wherever too. How, how do you work with these families that are out of state?

Dan Drews: Are we sending pictures or videos? Like, what’s that communication like- Mm … to get mom or dad the moving assistance they need when they can’t come all the way in from Wyoming? How does that work? 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Michael Bilek: The moving assistance part is easy, right? Okay. Because we just handle that with, with, with mom or dad right- Okay

Michael Bilek: here, uh, locally. But yes, we do do FaceTime videos. Uh, we do lots of pictures. We’re actually working with a client right now in Bolingbrook and, and, uh, her daughter, she ended up breaking her pelvis. She moved out to Arizona to be with her daughter. Mm. And so it’s kind of a very similar situation. Um, but we’re helping take lots of pictures.

Michael Bilek: We’re getting things prepared. We use specific companies where we can ship, like, 10, 12 boxes. It doesn’t cost a fortune to be able to do that. But we just understand what it is needs to go where, right? And it’s just a lot of communication. We can’t over communicate, but that’s really what it is. It’s just a lot of communication.

Michael Bilek: Having an understanding what kind of… Sometimes it’s just understanding what [00:31:00] kind of things they’re looking for, and that triggers us to look for a whole lot of different things just because we know what they’re looking for- Mm-hmm … even though they might not have actually said it. But FaceTime video is really important for us.

Michael Bilek: That, that’s been a, a game changer for us in some cases. Uh, we’ll jump on the phone and we’ll just literally walk through someone’s home for an hour, hour and a half on that FaceTime call or even a phone call. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. I can imagine those would be some long walks sometimes- … you know, with, with mu- trying to go through however many items you said that we house- Yeah.

Dan Drews: 330,000. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And so do you- … when you do that, do you have just, like, a, a clipboard and kind of a log of, okay, dishes, check. You know, blankets, check. Like, you, you’re just going through and kind of inventorying items or? 

Tammy Bilek: So yeah, so that’s a great question because I feel like we’re using that a little more often- 

Dan Drews: Uh-huh

Tammy Bilek: right? Because families are scattered, right? Jobs have taken them other places. Um, so I Zoom in the sand and write in the sand, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. It, it really is about that. I’m a very [00:32:00] visual learner- 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm … 

Tammy Bilek: so we’ll walk through the house and I’ll remember quite a bit. Um, but sometimes it, yes, is about that initial Zoom call, but then it’s like also about as we find things.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So they created a list for us, or we’ve located what, what was on the list, but then you’re gonna have questions about things that they didn’t even know existed. Hmm. Right? And you’re like, “Okay, if this was mine, I would probably wanna at least ask about it.” You know, um, like this morning we opened up a cedar chest and there was, I’m gonna say a f- like a family emblem of some kind, right?

Tammy Bilek: Hmm. That they’re like, “Oh, where was that? I didn’t even know it was in there.” Mm-hmm. You know, and, and some of mom’s jewelry as well. So again, it’s about this is the list that they’ve maybe s- we’ve started with. We always call, “This is Plan A.” And then sometimes we find Plan D or F, right? But it is like we are the, maybe the last ones to touch it or see it.

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. So again, [00:33:00] quick video of like, “We found this, this,” or a quick pictures, “We found all of these things today,” so they get still get to make the final decision on that. Hmm. And then they’ll decide what they want shipped to them. So we will also manage that whole process of shipping things out of state to them, um, whether it’s one picture.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Um, we… I had one recently up in Northbrook that I had five family members and one gentleman wanted one picture. This gentleman, he wanted… He goes, “I put all my stuff in that closet. Can you just ship that to me in California?” Great. We’ll do that. Then we had all of the furniture going to Wisconsin, and then two local cousins, we…

Tammy Bilek: You know, again, it’s really like divide and conquer. Hmm. Right? But someone, again, has to be that planner in the middle to make sure all of that comes together and happens. Hmm. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It probably helps to have a third party- … like you said, not in- Yes … the middle of it versus the oldest sibling being the one that decides it, ’cause that ends up- Yes

Tammy Bilek: it 

Brennen Roberts: never ends up being [00:34:00] fair. Yeah. So I imagine… Have you found any… I’m just curious, like- people, things get packed away. Like, just found other things like that where people had forgotten about or haven’t seen or- Yeah … seen anything, like, valuable, like, “Oh my gosh, I didn’t 

Tammy Bilek: know.” So, like, it’s, so I love the word valuable, right?

Tammy Bilek: But to who is it valuable to? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, 

Tammy Bilek: that’s- Right? Is it the children, the, the client themselves, the auction house? Like, who has the value? Mm. Um, I think the most recent was a, a Nazi helmet. Oh, goodness. Yeah. Um, you know. And again, I know there’s a lot of controversy about that, but that still is part of our history.

Tammy Bilek: Mm. Right? And so it is one of those things that has been obviously passed down through generations, and it was very strategically packed in the closet underneath a lot of things, and that was one of the things that we sent to the family and saying, “This.” 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. “

Tammy Bilek: What, what are we doing with this?”

Tammy Bilek: Because [00:35:00] I’m definitely not taking it to a local- 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Could be, like, a World War II veteran, you know- Oh, well- … who was- Like, it was a souvenir. Like, I know they- 

Michael Bilek: Well, souvenir, but I think- … 

Brennen Roberts: Rugers or whatever, you know Yeah … 

Michael Bilek: so. And I think what happens is, is, is, is it gets- You know? … buried in the closet, and they don’t tell the family about it.

Michael Bilek: Mm. Because at some point I think they, they, they feel what they were doing was not maybe- in line with who they are. Yeah. And so then they have a little bit of embarrassment with it, so- 

Dan Drews: Yeah … 

Michael Bilek: but I can’t get rid of it. I’ve not grieved it, so it’s gonna- Yeah … go in the closet- Yeah. Yeah … and 

Tammy Bilek: get hidden away.

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, but he, I mean, I don’t want to say you name it, we’ve found it, but, you know, um, we have found some, you know, like $60,000 wrapped in freezer paper in freezers. Mm-hmm. Holy cow. Right? Like, because that was how… They didn’t trust banks, right? Mm-hmm. Depending on the, the generation. So they saved their money, right?

Tammy Bilek: And that’s one of the reasons and one of the places that they saved it. Mm. Um, also toilet, um, I’m sorry, uh, money in the tank of the toilet. 

Brennen Roberts: Oh, really? 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Mm. [00:36:00] Because it- Who’s gonna look there? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, 

Tammy Bilek: yeah. Put it in- Exactly. Yeah … put it in a Ziploc bag and- Yeah … it’s there forever, right? Yeah. So there is a lot of interesting things when you pull open the drawer and you think it’s like, “Oh, there’s linens in here” and then you start to s- kind of stick your hand and it’s like, “Oh, well who is this?

Tammy Bilek: Oh, well, that was my previous wife,” right? And it’s like, “Oh, okay. Well, what, what are we doing with that?” Yeah. Right? Type of thing. So you just never know until you really kind of dig into it, and I think that what, uh, you know, for me, like keeps me coming back to the client, like even though yes, I’m one of the owners of this company, but I see clients two to three times a week because I love them.

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. Like, I love to hear their story and I love to coach them through this entire process, and I really want them to love life at that- Mm … new community that they’re moving to. Um, the gal that I went and saw today, she had lived in that community 14 years, and now [00:37:00] we have to move her to assisted living, you know?

Tammy Bilek: And I s- and I, I remember her, moving her there. Mm. And she s- I said, “Have you loved it for 14 years?” And she goes- best decision I’ve ever made. Oh, 

Brennen Roberts: that’s great. Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: You know? And so it, it makes me feel good too that we helped her with that process, and now, again, continuum of care retirement community, so she’s allowed to move to assisted living and still c- you know, be involved in a lot of activities and come back down and see her neighbors and all of those different things.

Tammy Bilek: So a lot of joy for myself too. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s awesome. And you probably were like, “Oh, this move is gonna be easy because the last person who helped you out did such a good job.” 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. She’s collected a little bit more- Yeah. … in 14 years, but absolutely, yeah. Sure. She, she’s like, “I remember your speech before. Less is more is better.”

Dan Drews: Well, let’s talk about that a little bit too, right? Because you’ve mentioned the average number of items that people usually have. I think my grandmother had double that- Probably, yeah … you know, right? And so you deal with, and we’ve… I’m sure a lot of our listeners, [00:38:00] too, have watched the show Hoarders- Mm

Dan Drews: and you said that’s kind of a technical term. We’re gonna use the term collectors- Yeah … which I think is really good. 

Michael Bilek: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: My grandmother was definitely a collector. Uh, how do you kind of walk into those, I guess, more extreme situations too? Mm. And if we kind of… If, Brennen, kind of go to this too. Yeah.

Dan Drews: Talk about how, how… If there’s a lot in there- 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah … 

Dan Drews: and you know in your head it’s a lot of stuff that needs to find a garbage bag, how do you walk through those extreme situations? 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely. So, well, we just did a recent project in Oak Park. Really, for me, like, I love collectors, right? Like, I have people who collect in our own family.

Tammy Bilek: Um, it’s just one of… I don’t know, it’s been always called to me. When Matt Paxton started the show Hoarders, we’ve been trained by him as well through NASM, the National- Really? Hmm … yep, the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Manag- Managers that we’re a part of. Hmm. Um, he has come in and done several classes for us.

Tammy Bilek: Amazing person. I will give a [00:39:00] quick little shout-out- Yeah … to his book, his… Everyone should read it. Uh, Keep the Memories, Lose the Stuff. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Very… And he has a new show out. Mm-hmm. But I think that, um, again, I have to understand what’s the end goal, right? Because y- you are instantly gonna be overwhelmed with how much stuff is in there.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So whether it’s one room or recently four stories. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So it’s like what is, whether it’s from the individual person living in the home or from a family, like, help me… Like, walk me through what’s in your mind of what is the end goal with this, right? So is it, yes, I want to have an estate sale, I want to donate everything we can, I know we’re gonna need junk haulers, but- This list in this room is what I’m looking for.

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Okay, great. So it’s really, again, communication. Um, and then when you start, right, sometimes you have to [00:40:00] stop. First of all, it’s extremely overwhelming if you’re not prepared for that. Um, and you’re wearing gloves, and a hat, and a respirator- 

Michael Bilek: Hmm … 

Tammy Bilek: to protect yourself, and long sleeves. Um, or sometimes a suit of some kind- Mm

Tammy Bilek: just depending. And to like, okay, stop. First of all, accept the wins, right? Like, “Oh my gosh, I found something.” Mm. Like, everyone in the whole house should know that you found the safety deposit box key on the dining room table- Mm … that you couldn’t see- Mm … because it was this deep, right? Mm-hmm. So you have to celebrate as you go along, but ideally, if the, the homeowner cannot be there, because it feels like you’re throwing their entire life away- 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm

Tammy Bilek: right? Whether you are donating or having a s- but again, it feels like it’s all gone instantly, right? So again, what’s the end goal so we can be a part of that vision that they have? Sometimes [00:41:00] we have to recreate the vision as we go, where it’s like, “Okay, I’ve decided we’re having this donation come every single day to pick up our donations.”

Tammy Bilek: Well, now we have found layers of mold in the house or infestations- Hmm … in the house. So now it’s like, okay, that option is no longer an option, and now what are we doing? Now we need a new dumpster every day- Hmm … because maybe there’s too much feces in it, and it’s just not donatable. Or the mold or asbestos if we found things in the basement.

Tammy Bilek: And sometimes you don’t know any of that until you start to dive into it. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So it, it is like, as you kind of go through the layers of what that looks like. Um, but most people are not collectors. Um, so to where to start, right? So there’s a list that, um, some of you are seeing on the screen as well.

Tammy Bilek: So it is not starting, like I remember when Michael and I decided to move 19 years [00:42:00] ago. “Well, let’s take on the basement this weekend.” Um, no. No thank you. I love you, but I don’t want to do that. So we’re wo- you know, where I’m like, “I want you to pick a space that’s doable in about 20 minutes so you see your progress so you can keep going.”

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So again, small areas. Small 

Brennen Roberts: goals. 

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Small areas. Yeah. Small goals. So, you know, easy spaces. I don’t want you to start with, you know, the, all the family pictures. No. Start with the linen closet. Mm-hmm. Start with the junk drawer. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Start with the Tupperware, you know, cabinet or drawer.

Tammy Bilek: Like start small and it’s like, “Okay, I did that drawer. Let me go onto the next drawer.” Or spices, right? Start there. Again, small little spaces. You’ll see the progress and you’re like, “Okay, I can take on, you know, half of my closet tomorrow.” You know? I’m not a huge fan of like Marie Kondo method, and there’s a bunch of other methods out there.

Tammy Bilek: It’s like, well, let’s do all of the clothing. Well, do you realize how many [00:43:00] pieces of clothing that you own? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Mm. That’s a lot, right? But you could break it down and just do one drawer every day in your dresser, and that’s doable. Yeah. Right? And you’ll be done within a week. You know- Yeah … type of thing. So- Small 

Dan Drews: bites.

Tammy Bilek: It’s like 

Dan Drews: how do you eat an elephant? Yeah, small bites. Exactly. How do you eat an elephant? Exactly. Yeah. One bite at a time. One bite at a time, right? Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: You know, and if… I always say try to have a friend, right? Or a loved one, you know, ’cause they’ll be honest with you. Be like, “You know, Brennen, really?

Tammy Bilek: You still wearing that shirt.” Like, it’s time to l- you know, let it go. Um, I always say play music, hydrate, and give yourself a pat on the back, and always like have some candy or something sweet just to kinda keep pushing you through the, the day of, of going through those. But again, small, small areas at a time.

Dan Drews: Yeah. I like this. I like this. ‘Cause it could be overwhelming for some. 

Brennen Roberts: Celebrate the wins. I like that. Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. Celebrate 

Brennen Roberts: the wins. The, the, the little things will keep you going 

Tammy Bilek: for sure. 

Dan Drews: Absolutely. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Bren, let’s talk a little bit too about different tips, I guess, you have for [00:44:00] w- for relocating to a memory or skilled, uh, skilled care facility too, right?

Dan Drews: Like if I’m, if I… Especially if I’m going from my house. Like my mother-in-law right now lives in Lombard, and she wants to be in that house as long as possible. Yeah. And at some point if that transition has to be made from a, a home that you love to a specialized facility, are there particular things you do differently than you would if somebody’s just moving from Lombard to Naperville?

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. That’s a really great question. Um, same answer I’ve had for a long time. Get them settled- for two weeks and don’t do anything with the house. 

Dan Drews: In the new place, you’re saying? Yes. Yep. Okay. So leave the old house alone- Mm-hmm … and get them settled in the new place. 

Tammy Bilek: Right. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Tammy Bilek: We want them to feel settled, right?

Tammy Bilek: We’re not making 15 decisions, we’re just moving. 

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? We’re moving either to memory care, skilled care, assisted living, [00:45:00] we’re getting settled, and that’s what we’re gonna focus on. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: We’re not deciding on what’s happening with the leftovers. Now I can’t drive anymore, what are we doing with the car?

Tammy Bilek: All of those things that they’re thinking, it’s like, no, we want our focus to be here. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: And we want to enjoy it, and we want to s- go and see them every day and making sure that they’re acclimated to their new space, whatever that looks like. And then things that are left in the h- home, right? It’s like, oh, we have space for that.

Tammy Bilek: Why don’t we bring that little piece over? Hmm. Mom would like that. Or all of a sudden in a week after she’s moved in and she’s like, “Where’s my painting above the bed? I’ve always had a painting above the bed.” Mm-hmm. Great. It’s still here. Nothing has happened to it. Grab that. Again, we want to feel the space so they can transition better there.

Dan Drews: Like, that eases the anxiety of the whole thing- Yes … I would imagine. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I like your idea, you said zones. Mm-hmm. Like, identify kind of like, so you’re thinking about like, when you say that it’s like, here’s [00:46:00] their, like, comfort zones within the house- Yeah … or here’s, like, the most important places, and then how do we do as close to replicating those- Right

Brennen Roberts: as possible. 

Tammy Bilek: And if you start to think about even the four- Yeah … of us here, right? Like, where do we spend the most time, right? So is it a recliner in the living room, right? Or is it on the sofa? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: Or is it, you know, my nightstand that has my CPAP and my eye drops- Mm-hmm … and whatever that looks like, right?

Tammy Bilek: So it’s like we want those spaces in particularly to look very much the same- Mm … at the next location. 

Brennen Roberts: A- and that means like- Using some of the same furniture- Absolutely … kind of configured the same. Mm-hmm. Little knickknacks and stuff- Yeah … that’ll just bring back those memories and stuff. Right. So. 

Tammy Bilek: And we will even ask them, you know, “Do you sleep on…”

Tammy Bilek: You know, usually we can tell, but, “Do you sleep on the right side or the left side?” And they’re like, “Oh, well why does that matter?” And I’m like, “Well, in your next place your bathroom is here, and in this home your bathroom’s over here.” 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. “

Tammy Bilek: So does that mean that we need [00:47:00] to- 

Brennen Roberts: Put the bed on- 

Tammy Bilek: Exactly … mm-hmm … put the bed on, on the east wall- Yeah

Tammy Bilek: instead of the west wall type of thing, and so that you’re closer to the bathroom there?” Mm-hmm. If that matters. Someone will say, “Well, I have to lay on my left side because of my heart condition.” 

Dan Drews: Oh. 

Dan Drews: Let’s take a look a l- uh, just a couple other before and after pictures, right?

Dan Drews: And if you guys could kind of speak to this a little bit, like how do you, how do you go in with like h- you know, a game plan, I guess, to make sure the after is what you trying to get to, you know? Yeah. Get to the right target, to your earlier point. 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely, right. So this is a before and after that we moved someone into in King Brevard House in Burr Ridge.

Tammy Bilek: And so we go in and measure their space ahead of time so we know, you know, how much space, like how… This particular client wanted a new dining room table, and new sofa, and lovese- and a chair. So it’s like we’re telling them months in advance what size pur- to purchase, right? And to have it either, [00:48:00] yes, delivered to our warehouse or delivered to the cottage once it’s, um, completed.

Tammy Bilek: But we start with that floor plan. That’s like, again, that to visualize what our new home is going to look like. Are we buying something new? Are we creating, you know, something, or like kind of mixing and matching what is in our current home? That’s what most of our clients do. And again, are we taking the right amount of things- 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm

Tammy Bilek: that we’re not turning our new home into a furniture store- 

Dan Drews: Yeah … 

Tammy Bilek: um, if that’s not the way that we currently live. So 

Dan Drews: that- And, and probably being thoughtful of tripping hazards- Oh, yes … and all things like that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely. Yeah, if we’re moving to assisted living, we’re not recommending bringing any types of rugs.

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. You know, and they’re like, “Oh, I’ll get the rug tape, and it’ll be okay.” And it’s like- 

Brennen Roberts: It’ll come loose … 

Tammy Bilek: I don’t want that on my watch, right? If you decide- It’ll come… Yeah … to bring the rug later, okay. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so those types of things. And, um- To make sure that their new home is going to, again, visual- help them to visualize, yes, it’s, this is the way- Yeah

Tammy Bilek: that I want it to look [00:49:00] when we’re all done at the end of the day. Not all of them look like this. 

Brennen Roberts: That- that’s probably what they put in their brochures. Yes. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Absolutely. ‘Cause it looks fantastic. But- All it’s missing is the, uh, 40-year-old TV s- on the floor- Right … in the corner, right? Yeah. That’s over here.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Yeah, but, and even like to make sure that, like this, they didn’t have their TV hung yet, but that was on the docket for the next day, to have that hung over the fireplace. Again, do we have that at home? Is that the right space for it? Should we be putting that onto a stand? Again, scheduling the maintenance department to come in and hang that TV.

Tammy Bilek: Mm-hmm. So all of those details we want to make happen in a very short amount of time. 

Dan Drews: Well, that looks fantastic. I want to take to, we’ll go to the next picture now. This looks like one of your more challenging projects- … right here. And if I walked in, yeah, I’d start to have heart palpitations- … a little bit.

Dan Drews: Like, how do you go into this situation- 

Tammy Bilek: Mm … 

Dan Drews: and see what the after needs to look like? Like, I mean, there’s a special part of your brain that has to be able [00:50:00] to process all this. 

Tammy Bilek: Right. So this is Cl- Michael’s client. 

Michael Bilek: Yeah. So, uh, this, we- we- we spoke about this in Oak Park earlier, right? This is the one where- where we found the safe deposit box key- Oh

Michael Bilek: on the dining table. So the dining table wasn’t in this picture, but the, there was more stuff in the room with the dining room, right? 

Dan Drews: Mm. 

Michael Bilek: Very tough. When I walked into this house, I could barely get up the stairs. I mean, it was bare- I mean, I had to hold on to stuff to, in order so I didn’t fall. Um, but really it’s just about understanding what the client needs- 

Dan Drews: Mm

Michael Bilek: and the why behind it. Tammy alluded to that. This particular client, uh, she was starting to have some memory issues. They- their family needed to sell the house so that she could go to a place, go to a facility where she could have the support she needed. Mm. Um, and so that was why there was a need for this.

Michael Bilek: Um, so it’s- it’s- it was really tough. When I walked in, I’ll be honest, I was overwhelmed, right? Um, we try to understand and- and visualize what the why is as to how we got here. So we didn’t necessarily have a lot of time with the client to understand that [00:51:00] why, but the picture started to unfold for us, right?

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm. And then we just start to understand what she needed, what was important to her, what we could still salvage out of here. Right. And that’s why in this picture, while it looks like a pile of stuff, to us- Mm-hmm … to this, this is the treasures that she was looking for that we were able to salvage out of- out of this, right?

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm. And- and I- I know it’s not a lot, but it’s way better than what it was, right? 

Brennen Roberts: I bet you a lot of that stuff she- Probably hadn’t seen or found for a long time, and it’s probably, like you said, probably is a little bit of a celebration- Yeah … finding these- 

Michael Bilek: A little bit of a celebration … treasures. But you’d be s- Yeah

Michael Bilek: you’d, you’d, you’d be, it’d be surprising. So some people, so she even still had a sharp memory. She, like, again, she knew the safe deposit box key was in the dining room. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Michael Bilek: She knew there was money in certain areas. Hmm. And she told us, “This is where you’re going to find it. I don’t know where in there it is, but it’s there.

Michael Bilek: I know it’s there.” So sh- Hmm … so even though she was experiencing a little bit of dementia, she was still pretty sharp to remember the stuff where [00:52:00] she had placed it and put it there before. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Michael Bilek: So that w- that was helpful for us, right? To find the stuff that, that was important for her. Um, but man, it was, this, this was a tough job.

Michael Bilek: This job took us a week and, uh, we had, what, three people, three of us working on it. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and this was one, unfortunately, where we found some of the mold and some of the other issues, where we just weren’t as able to save as much as we were really hoping to. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: I will say that this brings me actually joy, right?

Tammy Bilek: Because being able to go through the house, find what they want to keep, and her to be very successful at her memory care community, like, I think that that is success. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? For this particular… We did, Katie and I were working on this particular living room, and I remember co- coming across a picture, and I remember just talking about celebrating the wins- Mm-hmm

Tammy Bilek: right? So it was a framed picture, and it was our client on the floor of this living room with their son in the picture, and their daughter- Yeah … standing in the background. [00:53:00] beautiful living room. 

Michael Bilek: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Like, you could just… It was almost like I could see myself in the picture. So I took that picture, and of course I showed it to Katie.

Tammy Bilek: And I’m like, “We’re standing here in this living room,” and we put it on the mantel. So it helped the two of us to t- find that space again. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? Even though, because it does get mentally taxing when you’re going through all of these different things. But to, you know, find that… A- and it was like, for me like, I’m like, “Okay, God, I’m really struggling with this.

Tammy Bilek: I need something,” right? And boom, I move something, found this picture. The glass was cracked, but I could s- you know, I’m like, “Oh, this is the living room- Mm … that I’m standing in.” 

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: And so we put that up on the mantel and it, it was like, became like our goal, right? Like, we gotta get there today. We gotta get to that picture today, right?

Tammy Bilek: Like, to make it look like that again, um, i- in a very short amount of time. 

Dan Drews: And- Well, I think that’s a- e- one of the things you talked about is, like, h- helping the person move on, [00:54:00] right? Life is about chapters. You have different chapters in your life. And it seems to me like this person was stuck in a chapter and couldn’t go to the next one- Mm-hmm

Dan Drews: until you guys were able to help them out. 

Michael Bilek: Mm-hmm. And, and, and in this case it wasn’t just the, the, the, the mom, it was the kids were stuck in that ch- chapter- Mm … with Mom. 

Tammy Bilek: Right. 

Michael Bilek: Um, and I think that was one of the other things that really helped us through this job, is knowing what we were doing for those children, right?

Michael Bilek: And, and really unfortunately for Tammy, ’cause she got the brunt of it at the end- … of the job with the, with the walkthrough with the client. Mm-hmm. Bless her heart. But I think at the end of the day, that family’s still together because we were able to go in and do this, right? Mm. Yeah. I think if the family had done this, um, to, to their mom, that, that there would be a lot of brokenness there and a lot of really hard feelings that would be really difficult to overcome.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Gosh. Yeah. Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Absolutely. 

Dan Drews: Uh, you guys have been a wealth of knowledge in our conversation today. What other, any other nuggets or, uh, anecdotes that you think that either the [00:55:00] seniors or the children of seniors really need to know about as they kind of move through this phase of life where they have to maybe move and, uh, and transition to either a smaller place or, um, some sort of medically assisted facility and stuff?

Dan Drews: Yeah. Any adv- any other advice or something we haven’t touched on today? 

Tammy Bilek: client told me this, that we’ve moved him now three times. 

Dan Drews: Oh. 

Tammy Bilek: Um, that every person should move when they don’t have to move. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: So- 

Brennen Roberts: That is wise advice. 

Tammy Bilek: Exactly, yeah. So we’re not waiting for crisis to happen or, you know, like all of a sudden we’re like, “Oh my goodness, we’re paying for the lawn care, the snow, the lawn…

Tammy Bilek: You know, like someone’s in coming to help my laun- to get the laundry done. Someone’s helping in to clean,” right? So it’s like, “Oh my goodness, I’m paying for all of those things just to live under this roof.” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Tammy Bilek: Right? So to really step back from your [00:56:00] own life, like Michael and I even talk about this, right?

Tammy Bilek: I’m still in my 40s, but it’s like, what is… Do we need this house any longer, right? Our children now are older, so it’s like let’s step back and like what areas do we use in this house? Does it make sense for us to sell this house, right? Even us as younger folks, right? And should we be moving, right, to a ranch home?

Tammy Bilek: So we don’t have to do that, but does it make sense, right? So almost to take all the emotional out of it, just for a moment, and to ask yourself, and, and get your family involved with your conversation about, “I’m, I went and looked at three retirement communities today. I don’t think that I’m gonna move tomorrow, but I’m trying to plan for my future.”

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Tammy Bilek: You know? And so by moving and downsizing, whether it’s just to a smaller house, condo, town home, or moving to retirement senior living, [00:57:00] it’s… This is a huge gift to your family. Mm. Mm. Like just like can’t put a price tag on that, that you’ve made all of the decisions that you want to make. Um, again, that’s the planning process that Michael talked a little bit about, the after loss services.

Tammy Bilek: Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that? 

Michael Bilek: Yeah, d- the, you know, with after loss services- Mm … just give a gift to your family. Mm-hmm. Have those things prepared. Have it defined how you want your body handled. What do you want the funeral service to look like? Write that stuff down. Let, that allows your family to be at peace with what’s go- what’s happened to you recently, but also, uh, to move through that process.

Michael Bilek: I’d also say for, for those who are aging in place, right, because there are a lot of people who stay at home. We don’t call it downsizing, we call it right-sizing, right? Mm. You’re not downsizing. You’re not moving to a thing, but also right-size. Right-size for your current lifestyle, right? Like Tami was alluding to, we, that we, we, we’re not empty nesters, but we will be there soon and, and, and right-size our current space.

Michael Bilek: Do your family a favor, don’t- Don’t leave it for your kids as a gift because [00:58:00] really, mom and dad, it’s not a gift to me when I have to deal with it. Because now I’m trying to understand what would you have wanted- Mm-hmm … or what do you want, and that really can create a lot of conflict. So do us all a favor and do it while you can.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Well, and Tammy, to your point too, I think the kids would appreciate hearing the s- if the thing is important, tell me the story behind the thing. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, Brennen, let’s, uh, talk about… first of all, Tammy and Michael, thank you again so much- Yeah … for joining us today.

Dan Drews: Oh, thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you. If, if people need to get ahold of you, what’s the best way to seek your assistance? Yeah. So 

Tammy Bilek: honoringaging.com. You can absolutely email me directly at info@honoringaging.com. You can call the office and talk with Valerie at 630-524-9282. Um, but that’s the easiest place to get ahold of us.

Dan Drews: Well, thank you again for your time and your, your loving, giving nature in the way that you approach this business, right? Because that, that certainly comes through in the way [00:59:00] you talk about the way you deal with clients and, uh, I know we really appreciate it too. And Brennen, you’re at the heart of this too, as far as finding ways to equip seniors to enjoy their later years as well.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: And helping the families around. 

Tammy Bilek: So. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah. 

Tammy Bilek: Absolutely. 

Dan Drews: Well, we’re always trying to find ways to help seniors age in place. Brennen, thank you for sponsoring this program too, and Seniors Helping Seniors. We appreciate that, and being a part of the Naperville Area Family Guide. We look forward to you all joining us next time when we have another well-educated guest, uh, on with us, uh, and we talk about more topics.

Dan Drews: You can also check us out on Facebook, on our YouTube page at Seniors Helping Seniors Greater Naperville. Until then, folks, remember, it takes a village, so play your part in the village. Thank you for joining us, and we’ll see you next time. And so- Thank you … well, now we’ll turn and talk. Talk like birds.

Dan Drews: Chat here, yeah. Talk like birds. Yeah. For another five or 10 seconds. But you guys did fantastic. Oh, thank you. 

Dan Drews: [00:00:00] Okay. Get situated

Dan Drews: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Aging in Place, the Greater Naperville Area’s family guide. Our goal here is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle-aged adults, typically in their 40s to 60s, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting their aging parents and raising their own children.

Dan Drews: We wanna help their parents age gracefully as possible and reduce stress through education and community connection. It takes a village, folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover through expert guests that know the local area very, very well. I am your host, Dan Drews, and with me is my co-host and sponsor, Brennan Roberts, the owner of Seniors Helping Seniors for the Greater Naperville Area.

Dan Drews: And we also wanna thank one of our other supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who is a great advocate for all businesses [00:01:00] that support seniors in the Naperville area. Brennan, good to see you again. How are things at Seniors Helping Seniors? 

Brennen Roberts: Oh, doing great. You know, we’re… feel like our work is very rewarding, getting to work with people all the time.

Brennen Roberts: And as you know, we, uh, help seniors kind of age with grace and live in their homes as long as they can. And we do it through, uh, non-medical home care, such as, like, companionship, activities, support with, uh, the house, um, activities of daily living. And we do it through this unique intergenerational model, where our caregivers are primarily seniors themselves who are really able to connect with their peers on a, on a, on a good basis.

Brennen Roberts: So it’s like getting help from a friend in many cases. 

Dan Drews: Well, it’s a great model, and thank you for all the work you do in the Naperville area. I know we all appreciate it, so. Folks, our show today is gonna focus on how to prepare your parents and yourself for the steps of navigating Medicare and healthcare insurance in retirement.

Dan Drews: To help us with that, we are lucky to be joined by [00:02:00] Sheril Hagie. Sheril is a financial professional and senior health consultant at Advocate Insurance Agency. She is qualified to assist individuals, families, and small businesses through the complex insurance world. Sheril spends most of her days educating clients on the best ways to implement the different insurance products that best fit their specific situation, from Medicare and life insurance to disability and long-term care policies.

Dan Drews: Sheril, thank you for joining us today. Thank you. We’re so glad to have you here. Can you tell us a little bit about what got you into this business? 

Sheril Hagie: Uh, my aging parents- Mm … uh, basically got me into this business. I took my dad on in 2012 after my mother passed away in 2011 and, um, had to help him navigate through his insurance.

Sheril Hagie: Um, too expensive, was bankrupting him. Um, just- You know, [00:03:00] thank my parents for this and, you know- I th- 

Dan Drews: I think that’s what gets us in a lot into this ki- kind- Yeah … of business. Yeah. Brendan, I know you had a similar case. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah, I think I’ve heard that a lot. That was a similar thing with me, trying to help my father navigate his way through the, you know, home care, assisted living, nursing home, and just, you know, if you’re not familiar with it, it’s can be overwhelming for people.

Brennen Roberts: Correct. And certainly there’s so many layers of it, just the care, but then the financial and insurance is just so confusing. And I know as a child, trying to help take over his financials and preparing insurance- Yes … I was very, very confused. And so, you know, I, you know, I appreciate people like you that are helping- 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah

Brennen Roberts: our parents and other people’s parents and stuff work through that, ’cause it’s so important and it’s overwhelming, 

Dan Drews: you know? Yes. E- even in preparing for today, I’ve been impressed about all the things that I didn’t know about, call it red tape, potholes. Everything we’re gonna talk about today, there’s tons of it, right?

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. It’s everywhere. 

Sheril Hagie: There is a lot of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and it’s [00:04:00] everywhere, and it’s very hard to navigate for your seniors. I’m… I don’t care how- smart you are, how educated you are, it is a difficult thing to navigate. Um 

Dan Drews: And is that overwhelming feeling probably a lot what you get from your clients?

Dan Drews: They just don’t know where to start or how to start? 

Sheril Hagie: It… Correct, very overwhelmed. Um, received a phone call a couple of days ago from a woman. Um, she contacted Lisle Park District, and they gave her my name, and she’s retiring. She’s 64. Um, she went on the website and couldn’t make heads or tails of it. Wow.

Sheril Hagie: And she’s an educated woman, um, getting ready to retire. She’s, she even said to me, she goes, “I’ve got two master’s degrees.” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. “

Sheril Hagie: And this is overwhelming for me. I’m not sure where to go, what to do first. Um, I’m getting conflicting stories from friends and neighbors. Um, and then you go on a website, and y- you get conflicting things there,” she said, “So I just need help.”

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. You don’t trust what- So … you’re gonna get out of AI these [00:05:00] days. Correct. Yeah, it’s, um… I just think that’s true, just, um, a lot of things with the children or… And anytime you’re, no matter how smart you are, anytime you’re navigating something for the first time, and you really don’t- 

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm … 

Brennen Roberts: have to worry about it too much, and- Right

Brennen Roberts: until you have to worry about it. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: And then you don’t know what questions to ask and where to go and what the resources are. 

Sheril Hagie: And people are also afraid of, in their words, messing it up, because it’s going to be very hard to un-mess up once you create that mess. If you click the wrong box or you, you know, you click the wrong date or enter in a wrong date for something, you know, then you’re going through another portion of red tape to get all of that undone.

Dan Drews: Oh. Yeah. So. It’s, it’s like me trying to put a sump pump in my house. If I… I know- … if I screw it up in the beginning, the whole thing’s gonna be a mess. Oh, my gosh. Right? But, but to that point, we need experts like yourself to kind of make sure that we’re pointed in the right direction so that we don’t have to undo a lot of errors in the long term, so.

Sheril Hagie: Right. Yeah. And, and people don’t know where to go. You know, they’ll [00:06:00] call somewhere, and they’ll be like, “You do it all online. Just go online. Just Google it.” No, you Google Medicare… I, I have it in one of my presentations. If you Google Medicare, you get some sort of crazy number like 3 billion responses- Oh, my 

Brennen Roberts: gosh.

Brennen Roberts: Oh. 

Sheril Hagie: If you Google Medicare. Um, it’s crazy. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It’s everyone’s wanting to get a piece of the action- It’s- … ’cause there’s so much- Correct … money and, you know, insurance and care. So, um- It’s … yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s very confusing. So, I mean- 

Dan Drews: Well, why don’t we start at the beginning about why this is so important, right?

Dan Drews: You, you had some, uh, stats that you gave us, too. About 64% of future retirees believe that Medicare will cover their long-term care costs. Um, what… Talk a little bit about what’s the perception, I guess, and the reality. 

Sheril Hagie: So perception is that it’s going to cover long-term care There’s people talk to their neighbors and they’ll be [00:07:00] like, “My mom’s getting paid for.”

Sheril Hagie: Well, what they don’t understand is their mom is on Medicaid. Mm-hmm. So, and that’s a whole other animal. But Medicare will never cover your long-term care costs. Medicaid will, but you have to financially qualify to be on Medicaid. Um, most people are not gonna qualify to be on Medicaid The fact of the matter is Medicare has never covered long-term care, and it never will cover long-term care.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: So you have to, when you’re sitting down and doing your financial planning, you’re creating your budget, you’re creating your retirement plan, things like that, you wanna think about long-term care. Chances are you’re gonna need long-term care at some point in your life, whether it be early on or later, or midway through your retirement.

Sheril Hagie: It doesn’t mean that you’re gonna stay on long-term care necessarily. You could, depending on what happens, right? Nobody, um, thinks they’re gonna have a stroke or a heart attack or a [00:08:00] Parkinson’s or MS or something. It comes up later in life. You could have an event where you need long-term care for six months- 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm

Sheril Hagie: and then you’re, you no longer need it, right? So long-term care is something that you should always put in your retirement portfolio. You should always talk about that. You should always think about that. Long-term care is very important. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: And do you find that that’s a difficult conversation for families, including the 80-year-old parents and the 50-year-old kids, like, to, they don’t wanna talk about it?

Dan Drews: Is that, do you find that very often? 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. I do find that a lot, and a lot of it comes down to cost on a long-term care plan. Long-term care, there are several different types of long-term care now, where in the past there was one type of long-term care, and it was use it or lose it. So you’re paying in these exo- ex- exorbitant amounts in premiums, and you may never use it, and then it’s just the insurance company’s making out like a bandit, right?

Sheril Hagie: Because [00:09:00] they’re taking your premiums. You pass away, what happens to the policy? It goes away, right? Um, there are other types of long-term care where you can have it, um, and have beneficiaries. So if you don’t use it, and you pass away, then that money goes to- Hmm … your beneficiary. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: So that’s the, the, where I run into problems with people, is they don’t wanna talk about it because of cost.

Sheril Hagie: There are cost-effective ways now to get long-term care, and the younger you are when you buy into it, the better off you are. I always say to people, if you’re planning for retirement in your 30s, 40s or 50s, have that conversation with someone. Put that plan in place now, because if you’re going to pay for it on a monthly basis, your premiums are a lot lower.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: And your premiums are your premiums. They don’t go up as you age in a different type of long-term care policy. Now, they do if you go into a traditional long-term care. Um, that’s [00:10:00] my last resort, is something traditional, the choose it or lose it. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: But it’s very, very important to have that conversation when you’re younger.

Sheril Hagie: Now, I do have, I’m working with a 76-year-old woman right now who’s putting long-term care in place. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: She’s very healthy Um, she is putting in a lump sum of money versus making payments, and you can do that. So she’s pulling money out of a portfolio, and she’s putting in anywhere between 100 and 150,000 into a long-term care policy, into an annuity, a long-term care annuity actually, um, where she’s gonna have a bucket to pull from later on in life if she needs it.

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. But 

Dan Drews: that- Well, that, that could be an interesting strategy. I, um, we were talking with, uh, one of our, uh, financial advisor guests too, with some seniors that have, uh, RMDs, required minimum distributions, and you have to do- Yes … something with that. That sounds maybe- Yes … like a good avenue for that. Yeah.

Sheril Hagie: Correct. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Correct. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Hmm. I mean, it’s like anything, you should plan when [00:11:00] you don’t need it, ’cause if you- Yeah … wait until you absolutely need it- Correct … then it’s a problem, so. And I- 

Sheril Hagie: Yes … 

Brennen Roberts: yeah, I think it’s kind of interesting, it’s just kind of throws you off almost, like, the idea of, like, Medicare, when actually it’s kind of like, uh, Medicare covers the care, but they don’t cover the care, right?

Brennen Roberts: Correct. So, like, obviously in home care we see that all the time, where- 

Sheril Hagie: Yes … 

Brennen Roberts: people are navigating a, they’ve had a health event, and they’ve been in the hospital, and they’re going to skilled care, and then they’re ready to come home, but they need help, you know, getting to the bathroom, doing all that stuff.

Brennen Roberts: Yes. And they’re like, “Can, and Medicare covers this.” No. No, it does not. 

Sheril Hagie: No, it does not. And there are policies out there for that. Um, you know, I’m partnered with a couple of different carriers that you can get a hospital plan, you can get a home health plan, cancer plan, things like that, and they’re pretty inexpensive.

Sheril Hagie: Um, I don’t, I like to educate people. I don’t like to talk, um, at people. I want to educate them and [00:12:00] on the things that are out there to help them, and they’re pretty inexpensive. And the younger you are when you buy into them, the cheaper they’re gonna be. Um, like life insurance- Mm-hmm … or, um, final expense is what we call it when you’re dealing with someone that’s in the, that’s of the older age.

Sheril Hagie: My dad, I didn’t realize he didn’t have a substantial life insurance policy to bury him until he was 80. We had this discussion and he goes, “I have $5,000.” And I’m like, “Oh, oh.” That- “No, hold up here.” 

Brennen Roberts: Not gonna cover a lot. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: So I wrote him on a $10,000 final expense plan when he was 80. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: And, you know, it worked beautifully.

Sheril Hagie: Is it expensive? Um, it depends. H- His was $100 a month for $10,000. Um, he passed away four and a half years into that plan, but then I had the $15,000 to bury him. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: And if anybody knows, it costs between 10 and $15,000 depending on what you’re doing, sometimes more, to bury one of your loved ones. 

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, 

Dan Drews: yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Well, 

Dan Drews: I tell you- So- … one of the things you mentioned there, Sheril, is wanting to help educate people. And for our audience there, regardless of any topic we talk about, you need to find folks like Sheril that don’t wanna talk above your head and confuse you with a lot of, uh, slang terms, but can sit down with you and walk you through it.

Dan Drews: So I applaud you for having that educator kind of mindset for folks that come in. And, and with that, let’s kinda talk about the beginning of the beginning here as we get into how do you even start to sign up for, uh, Medicaid. 

Sheril Hagie: So 

Dan Drews: for Medicare- Or Medicare. I’m sorry. Yep. Look it, I’m already getting it wrong too.

Dan Drews: I, I’m glad we’re having this, this show. 

Sheril Hagie: So for Medicare you want to and start, you wanna start the enrollment process three months before your 65th birthday. So you’re gonna start when you’re 64, so three [00:14:00] months prior, um, to the 65th birthday, and you have the three months prior, the month of your birthday, and three months after.

Sheril Hagie: I never suggest waiting until the month of your birthday or three months after. I always want everyone to start three months prior because it’s a process. Um, you never know how long it’s going to take to be approved, and by that I mean you’re doing it all online now. Um, they really don’t wanna help you in the Social Security office anymore.

Sheril Hagie: They will tell you to go do it all online. If you’re not savvy online, um, it could take a little longer. You’re gonna need help. If the person helping you doesn’t know what to do, then you’re kind of in a mess, right? So you wanna start that beforehand, the three months before. Yeah. Because I have seen it take- Four weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks to get approved Wow Because you’re filling it out online, it’s going to the Social Security office.

Sheril Hagie: So you sign up through [00:15:00] ssa.gov through Social Security. It’s going to the Social Security office, and it could sit on someone’s desk, which in fact happened when we were calling on someone that we were reaching the 12-week mark and there was still no approval. It was on someone’s desk at the Social Security office.

Brennen Roberts: Well, y- you’d told me earlier that you had gone into Social Security office recently and had, you know, bless them, but they’re- 

Sheril Hagie: Yes … 

Brennen Roberts: pretty understaffed, and you said there was like one person there helping out. 

Sheril Hagie: One person helping. There were two people waiting, and it was a three-hour wait. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. Oh my goodness.

Sheril Hagie: Um, and I can help you navigate through this process. All you need to do is call me, and I will help you. I’m a no-cost educator. So what that, what does that mean? That means that my dad made me promise to help people, um, and not charge them. And I legally, I, I could charge a consultation fee and help you sign up for Medicare Part B, and A and B, and walk you through the process and things like that.

Sheril Hagie: That’s not part [00:16:00] of who I am. That’s not part of my business standard. My business standard is to educate you and show you how to do this and walk you through it side by side, that way nothing gets missed and you know exactly what is going on. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, you need to know as the client or as the Medicare beneficiary how to do this and what’s going on.

Sheril Hagie: Now, you’re never gonna have to do this again, sign up again, but you should know. You should be there watching. You know, there are questions that I need to ask you that are on there. Some of them are not easy to understand, right? Yeah. So I will sit there with you at no cost and walk you through this process.

Sheril Hagie: I will hold your hand. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, when you first sign up for a ssa.gov account, you, there’s a third-party identifier on there. You have to be identified through id.me or login.gov. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: If it’s your first time signing up, that’s a whole other animal, trying to get verified through [00:17:00] one of those two sites. And I’ve seen it happen.

Sheril Hagie: I’ve sat with somebody in Ottawa, Illinois, and we couldn’t get her verified through either one of those because her email, she had gotten married, didn’t change her name, didn’t change her name on her Social Security number, had two different emails out there, and her address on her driver’s license didn’t match the address of where she was living.

Dan Drews: No kidding. Mm. So- So the do- so this site was just like, “Ah, we can’t, we can’t confirm this is who you are.” Correct. Wow, okay. 

Sheril Hagie: So we ended up calling Social Security, and she did have to make an appointment, and she did have to go into the Social Security office to be physically verified. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: So, yes, it’s, it can be troublesome- 

Brennen Roberts: Absolutely

Sheril Hagie: trying to do this on your own. There’s so many different factors that go into it. 

Brennen Roberts: To your point, you’re like, even if you’re 98% and percent certain that you have the right answer for this question, like, that this is like, feels very important- [00:18:00] Right … to get it right, I’m like, eh, if I had an expert there helping me out.

Sheril Hagie: Well, and there’s also re-entry numbers and things like that. And it, it will say, “Print this page.” Well, if you’re someone that’s not tech savvy, you don’t have a printer, you don’t know how to print that to a PDF and save it on your laptop, things like that, I will do all that for you. If you don’t have an email, we will create you an email.

Sheril Hagie: I will help you set that up on your phone. Mm-hmm. We will send all those documents via, from, I’ll save them all as a PDF, and I will forward them on to you. Um, so it’s, it’s very hard to navigate. You have got re-entry numbers in case you wanna save and go back in and, you know- It’s difficult. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. Ugh. 

Sheril Hagie: And anyone- I-

Sheril Hagie: can set up an ssa.gov account at any time in your life. You don’t have to wait till you’re 64, 65 years old. I set mine up in my 30s. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Um. 

Dan Drews: And, and why is that? 

Sheril Hagie: You can watch your Social Security on there. 

Dan Drews: Oh, okay. 

Sheril Hagie: So you have to work 40 [00:19:00] quarters in order to qualify for Medicare. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, and you can see how many quarters you’ve worked, how much, if you retire now, how much is your Social Security check gonna be.

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Things of that nature. Um, I just signed my husband up. He did not have one. He’s 54, and he watches it now. Once a month, he goes in and he looks at it. And I’m like, “You don’t need to watch it that often.” But, ’cause we’re not near- It’s 

Brennen Roberts: not gonna change that dramatically- Right … in a month. 

Sheril Hagie: We’re not near retirement age.

Sheril Hagie: Right. But, um, yeah, so he’s now set up with one. Yeah. It’s just easier to set it up- I believe when you’re younger. I set up one for both of my kids. They’re 26 and 

Brennen Roberts: 23. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, they both have an ssa.gov account- Mm-hmm … because then they can see how many quarters have you worked. There’s a little green bar and it fills in as you’re working.

Sheril Hagie: Um, so yeah, it’s- That’s it. 

Brennen Roberts: So it sounds like a good recommendation most people wouldn’t know about. 

Sheril Hagie: Correct. 

Brennen Roberts: Go out there and sign up and set your account. Yes. It’ll save you a- at least one step when you get closer to that. 

Sheril Hagie: It will save you at least [00:20:00] one step, and that’s when I get phone calls I’ll, I will say, “Have you signed up for ssa.gov yet?”

Sheril Hagie: And they’ll be like, “What?” “

Brennen Roberts: What? I don’t, I don’t know.” They’ll be like, “What’s 

Dan Drews: that?” Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Right. Yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: yeah. And I- 

Sheril Hagie: And then 

Brennen Roberts: your kids will be like, “Oh, my mom signed me up- 

Sheril Hagie: Right … 

Brennen Roberts: uh, 30 years ago.” 

Sheril Hagie: Exactly. And you wanna save all your login info so you can get in and out of there and, and navigate the site. But yes.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Well, I was also interested to learn that you can also, you might be eligible for Medicare if you’ve got certain medical conditions too, like kidney failure and such. Yes. But, I m- without maybe listing them all, give us a sense of what that means. 

Sheril Hagie: So end care or end stage renal failure. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, that will automatically qualify you.

Sheril Hagie: I do have some clients in their 30s and 40s that are on Medicare. Um, traumatic brain injuries. Really? Things like that, you can’t work. Um, if you are on disability for 24 straight months, on month 25- Hmm … you will be enrolled in Medicare. Uh, I have a personal friend of mine, [00:21:00] she’s 45 years old, she was in a severe car accident in 2014, I think it was.

Sheril Hagie: Uh, traumatic brain injury, a lot of head injuries. Uh, she had a stroke- 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm … 

Sheril Hagie: um, from this, and she has been on Medicare- Hmm … since that accident- 

Brennen Roberts: I 

Sheril Hagie: mean- … because she’s disabled. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s- I imagine that enrollment process is probably even more difficult than, uh- 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. So it’s, you know, it is what it is, but it’s, it’s out there for you if you’ve been on disability.

Sheril Hagie: Um, there are people that have children at home that are in their 20s that are on Medicare because they’ve been on disability. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. Interesting. You know? They- I bet you that is not a commonly known thing in the universe there, yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: It, it is not. Yeah. You know, you have kids that are born with muscular dystrophy- Mm-hmm

Sheril Hagie: um, cerebral palsy, things like that, that have been in wheelchairs since they were, should have been walking, right? Mm-hmm. Um, as they’re growing. And yes, they do qualify [00:22:00] for Medicare. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: Um, well, I mean, that, that’s great ’cause it’s obviously intended to be the, the safety net and- Correct

Brennen Roberts: healthcare for, for everyone who needs it. You know, as we all know, our healthcare system’s a little, little wonky here in the US . So. 

Sheril Hagie: Right. And they do have requirements that you have to meet- 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: to be on that, but, um- You’re going to qualify for it if you’re, you’re not working, you have been deemed disabled, you’ve been on disability, you know, for 24 straight months.

Sheril Hagie: You’re going to meet one of the- 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: qualifiers on 

Brennen Roberts: there. The, the, the intent is not to have people fall through the cracks- Correct … I think. So as long as you- Correct … as long as you know how to navigate the system a little bit, hopefully you can get there. So. 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Well, we talked a little bit about, earlier about kind of the timeline.

Dan Drews: I- if you could walk us through that again, too, like when you should enroll in Medicare. And like, if I’m coming into you for the first time, do I need to be bringing in my Social [00:23:00] Security card? You know, what, what sort of, I guess, documentation or things do I need- I- … in order to kind of prepare myself? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, and I was also wondering, like you mentioned those dates, too, like does the, does the government send you a notification, like enroll in this?

Brennen Roberts: Or is it just everybody’s supposed to- … intuitively know that they need to 

Sheril Hagie: do it? You will start getting stuff in the mail from the Department of Social Security and Medicare. Really? 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: You will. And a lot of people think, because I educate on this, a lot of stuff you do get in the mail is a scam. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: Oh. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, so don’t, don’t take that as like the word. Um- 

Dan Drews: So what should people be looking for? Like, what, what… The, the logo from 

Sheril Hagie: Social Security in front of it? It’s Social Security Administration Office, and they have that seal. Same thing with Medicare, so you want to look at that. medicare.gov, um, is the Medicare site.

Sheril Hagie: Uh, Medicare, Medicare very rarely communicates with you. Mm. Okay? They’re not going to… 99 per- Mm … I, I’m gonna say this, 99% of the time Social [00:24:00] Security and Medicare will never call you. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: But they do call sometimes. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: So I just had a client get a call from Social Security. 

Brennen Roberts: Interesting. Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: She had done something, um, through her portal, and she clicked the wrong box.

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: And they called her, and she called me, and she goes, “Is this true? Will they be calling me?” And I’m like, “What number did they leave you?” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: So I checked the number, and I said, “Yes, go ahead and call them back. Something must have went wrong with something.” And she goes, “I was in there messing around. I must have clicked something wrong.”

Dan Drews: Hmm. Well, I would- So- … applaud that person for being vigilant like that because- 

Sheril Hagie: Yes … 

Dan Drews: I’m sure as you run into it with your clients, there’s scammers out there all the time trying to replicate, you know? 

Sheril Hagie: And she was afraid to call them back. I made time in my day to go to her house and was there when she called, so we called together.

Dan Drews: Wow, 

Brennen Roberts: that’s great. 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. Great person care. So you, you will get notifications. Um, you want to pay attention to those notifications. I always tell everybody, open [00:25:00] all of your mail. I find with a lot of seniors, they don’t open their mail. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: And they will get stuff in the mail, and they will say, “Well, I never got that.”

Sheril Hagie: Yes, you did. Well, I threw that away. If you’re ever questioning anything, call me. I will look at it. If you can snap a picture of it, if I’m in the area, I will come look at it personally. Uh, I have an office at the Lisle Park District, um, in the senior center. You wanna drop it off there with the secretary there, you know, put my name on it, I’ll look at it and I’ll get back to you and tell you this is garbage or this is something that you really need to pay attention to.

Dan Drews: I’ve got a, I’ve got a question on that. I’m curious from your perspective, let’s call it over the last 10 years or so, have you seen an evolution in the, uh, complexity or the, um, I guess the capability of some of these scammers, right? Like- Oh, definitely … you know, where stuff start- 10 years ago stuff might have been in crayon, and [00:26:00] now-

Dan Drews: boy, it’s, it’s hard to discern what’s real and what’s not. 

It 

Sheril Hagie: is. Yeah. Especially with phone calls and AI now. Mm-hmm. Uh, mail I can pretty much tell if it’s real or not in the mail. Um, but phone calls, those are getting harder and harder to detect if it’s scams or not- 

Dan Drews: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: with AI going on. 

Dan Drews: What, what recommendation would you give for folks if they get a phone call that they don’t feel 100% confident in, what, what would you recommend?

Dan Drews: Hang up. Hang up? Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Hang up. Yeah. Block the number. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: I always tell everybody, “Hang up and block the number.” When I do my educational seminars out in public, I will show people. I’m an Android user, not an iPhone user, so but I will show them on my phone this is how you block a number. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: If you… So say you have Humana Insurance, and somebody from Humana keeps calling you and calling you and saying they’re with Humana.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm 

Sheril Hagie: But it’s a different phone number, they’re not with Humana. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: They’re more than [00:27:00] likely a robocaller and they’re trying to swit- trying to get you to switch your insurance. Happened to a client of mine in Streator, Illinois. Um, her daughter called me and said, “When did you change Mom’s insurance from Aetna to WellCare?”

Sheril Hagie: And I said, “I didn’t. We didn’t change your mom’s insurance. Aetna’s the best plan out there for her right now.” And she goes, “Well, she’s on WellCare now.” And I go, “What did she do?” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Sheril Hagie: Interesting. “Did she answer the phone?” What happened is someone called her, they told her they had a better plan. She okay… She said something and they switched her.

Sheril Hagie: No. 

Brennen Roberts: Just on the verbal okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Just on a verbal okay over the phone. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, so we had to get her switched back. We had to use a special election period. We were able to get her switched back though. So then we blocked that number on her phone, but unfortunately, I don’t know how many scam calls you get a day, I get, like, 12.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, you, and you block them and then they call from another number. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Right? Yeah. So. [00:28:00] 

Brennen Roberts: Your, your strategy is, like, sometimes, like, get a callback number, then you can do a reverse lookup of the number- Right … but it, which is a little technical, but you know. Right. Just pop it into- 

Sheril Hagie: You 

Brennen Roberts: just-

Brennen Roberts: a Google search and, you know, it’ll, uh, if it’s associated with the- 

Sheril Hagie: Right … 

Brennen Roberts: SSA. And, and you 

Sheril Hagie: know- 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm … 

Sheril Hagie: they’re getting creative through the mail too, and things like that. And I always tell everybody, I have clients… I, I’m pretty niche in what I do, is I will do home visits. Um, so if you don’t feel comfortable coming to my office, if you want to meet me at a restaurant, I will meet you there.

Sheril Hagie: If you want to meet me at a coffee shop, I have one client who loves to meet me at Bone & Beef. Um, I’ve met with her at her home twice, and now she wants to go to Bone & Beef all the time. Um, which is fine. I will meet you anywhere you want me to meet you, even if it’s at your home. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah. I, I know… I, I don’t, I’m a little curious if there are tools out there like LifeLock and things like that, that, that are designed to help protect people’s identity and credit.

Dan Drews: Do, do those [00:29:00] tools help i- in anything in your industry or no? Is that- 

Sheril Hagie: Not that I’ve seen- Okay. Okay … or not that I’m aware of. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, I personally have LifeLock, and it, it, it helps. Mm-hmm. I think everybody should have something like that. Um- Because somebody tried to buy a car in California- 

Brennen Roberts: Really? … 

Sheril Hagie: with my Social Security number a few years ago.

Sheril Hagie: Um, and I was notified immediately, uh, via phone call and email from LifeLock. Hmm. Uh, so but in the healthcare industry, no, not really. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, I was flipping through the TV last night and Dr. Oz was on. We all know he heads up Medicare and Medicaid now. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: And he was talking basically about the scams.

Sheril Hagie: And my husband’s like, “Change the channel.” I’m like, “No, I’ll go upstairs and watch this because I need to know this.” And there are so many scams out there. My dad was scammed with medical devices that he never received. 

Brennen Roberts: Really? 

Sheril Hagie: Uh, yes. So they will bill your insurance. They will call you and say, “Do you [00:30:00] have knee problems?

Sheril Hagie: Do you have back problems?” And all they need you to verbally say is yes, and they can use that yes and apply it to anything. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. And so they’ll charge you for a knee brace- 

Sheril Hagie: That you don’t even get … 

Dan Drews: that you don’t ever get, and they’ll bill it through to- 

Sheril Hagie: Through your insurance. Unbelievable. They’ll figure out who your insurance is.

Sheril Hagie: My dad was on Humana, and we got his EOB or explanation- Mm … of benefits. And I’m like, “What are all these charges?” And I called Humana, and I was like, “Please don’t pay these. These are all fraudulent.” 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: And there’s… Yeah, there’s a lot of fraud that goes on with Medicare- Ugh … and Medicaid. Yeah. So. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Well, I tell you what, let’s, um…

Dan Drews: So get us back to, uh, I guess the enrollment piece too. We’ve got a grid or a chart here. Talk to, talk to us a little about, about what this, this grid or chart kind of- So- … uh, helps us explain. 

Sheril Hagie: This grid is one of the things that I carry with me all the time to show people. So I made this grid. It shows you [00:31:00] when you should start applying.

Sheril Hagie: So if you were… My birthday’s in November, so when I’m 64 and I’m going to apply, I’m not gonna wait till November when I turn 65. I’m gonna start my process in August. August 1st, no matter what my date of birth is, my date of birth is November 5th. Mm-hmm. I don’t start it on the 5th. I start it on the 1st of August.

Sheril Hagie: That’s when I can go in and apply for Part A and B, okay? To get the process started. My end date is February 28th, 29th if it’s a leap year. Mm. Um, like I, like I always tell everybody, don’t wait till February. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. I- is the… Does the clock tick, like if you appl- start the application process at the end of the period?

Brennen Roberts: Is that okay if it’s not been approved yet? Yeah, and 

Sheril Hagie: yes. It, it is, but I don’t suggest starting the process- Mm … saving and exiting and going back in, because you’re gonna forget. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You’re gonna forget, and you might lose that re-entry [00:32:00] number, so you need that re-entry number to get back in there. If you don’t print it or write it down, you’re gonna lose that.

Brennen Roberts: And when you say re-entry, that’s just basically you’re saving your progress. 

Sheril Hagie: And they give you a number. Here’s how you pick up, 

Brennen Roberts: pick up where you left off. 

Sheril Hagie: Yep. They give you a number, and they tell you to print this number or write it down, because they’re gonna ask you what that number is when you go back in to continue the process.

Brennen Roberts: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: So you need that number. So I never suggest starting and stopping. 

Brennen Roberts: I would imagine it’s probably… Even if you lose that, can you even restart a new one or does it get- 

Sheril Hagie: No … you’re punished? So you’re gonna have to call. Yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: yeah, yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Okay. You’re gonna have to call. And wait times, hour, five hours on hold.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. You said, ugh, hours in the 

Sheril Hagie: line. Three hours in an office. Mm-mm. Right. So you wanna start that process. So if you’re born in March, you wanna start at December 1st the year before. So you’re born in March of this year, of, of… You’re turning 65 March of 2026. Start that process December 1st, 2025. 

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Sheril Hagie: Okay? 

Dan Drews: And is there w- is there [00:33:00] any recourse if you miss the window? Like, if you go past, it… Can you do anything? 

Sheril Hagie: You’re going to be penalized if you don’t sign up for B and D- 

Dan Drews: Mm … 

Sheril Hagie: in your initial enrollment period. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Unless you have credible coverage. And a lot of people are like, “What is credible coverage?”

Sheril Hagie: Credible coverage is employer insurance. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Or you’re on your husband or wife’s insurance. Um, that’s credible coverage. And it has to be medical and, uh, prescription drug coverage to be credible coverage. Sometimes people don’t retire till they’re 67, right? Because… And then they’ll start… They’ll retire at 67, start taking their Social Security benefits at 67, ’cause you get more at that point.

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm. Um, I’m going through this with a client right now. She’s insured until June 30th. July 1st she will start receiving her benefits because she’s retiring. She has… And one of the questions when you go to sign up is, “Have you [00:34:00] had credible coverage?” You’re going to click yes, and it will ask you, “What type of coverage have you had?”

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Sheril Hagie: Is it through a union? Is it through an employer? Is it through a spouse? And it has to be one of those. Is it railroad? Um, s- and they list them out. So you wanna make sure you have credible coverage so you don’t get hit with that penalty. I do have clients with Part B and D penalties because they did not enroll.

Sheril Hagie: A lot of the Part D ones, that’s your drugs. I wasn’t on any drugs when I was 65 or 67 when I enrolled. ‘Cause you don’t have to enroll at the age of 65 if you’re still working and have credible coverage. You can enroll for the first time at 67 instead of 65. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Sheril Hagie: If you’re not on drugs, you still need a Part D plan.

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: I don’t care if it’s just a five milligram statin that you’re not paying anything for or it’s $3, you need drug [00:35:00] coverage because you’re gonna get penalized later. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Ugh. That, that is crazy. We started looking on this topic. I had no idea it was so punitive for… 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. 

Brennen Roberts: Can I ask, like, why is that? Does it just create more paperwork for the government, or is it just meant to be an incentive to- 

Sheril Hagie: It’s-

Brennen Roberts: get enrolled on time or? 

Sheril Hagie: I believe it’s an incentive to get enrolled on time, but- I, I’m not on board with the whole penalty thing. Um, yes, I do think there should be penalties, but I don’t think sh- they should be as aggressive as they are. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Right? So you are notified before you turn 65, “Hey, now is the time to start enrolling in Medicare,” things like that.

Sheril Hagie: So you are notified, so I get the whole penalty thing, but, you know, 10%. 

Brennen Roberts: For life. 

Sheril Hagie: For life. On, on a Part B plan. So, you 

Dan Drews: know- And, and, and explain that again. 10% of your coverage or 10%- So- … [00:36:00] additional? What does that mean? Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: it’s for each 12-month period you go without Part B- Yeah … and do not qualify for an exemption, a 10% surcharge is added to the base monthly premium.

Brennen Roberts: Oh, 

Sheril Hagie: my goodness. So if your premium for Part B is 202.90, which is the lowest premium that they offer right now- Mm-hmm … and it, and your premiums go by income. So if you’re on a 202.90, they’re gonna add 10% to that 202.90. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s crazy. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: For- I- … 

Sheril Hagie: every 12 months you go without a Part B plan. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s … Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: For life. 

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: For life. 

Sheril Hagie: Yep. So- Yeah, that seems 

Dan Drews: very punitive. Mm. 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. So if you go 24 months, it’s a 20% penalty. 

Dan Drews: Oh, my gosh. 

Sheril Hagie: That’s- If you go, you know, 36 months, it’s a 30% penalty. 

Dan Drews: Oh, my gosh. That is a deadline you do not wanna miss then. Holy cow. Right. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Exactly. You don’t wanna miss those deadlines, and Part D is the same way.

Sheril Hagie: There’s different penalties for D, uh, than there are B, but a lot of [00:37:00] people are like … I met with some people last week. They are like, “Neither one of us are on any medications.” And I said, “That’s great.” I said, “I have a plan for you.” “We don’t need a plan. We’re not on medications.” “But you do need a plan.” 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm.

Sheril Hagie: “Because if you don’t sign up for a plan, you’re gonna get hit with that Part D penalty.” “Well, this is dumb.” “Yes, I agree with you.” “I, I totally agree with you.” 

Brennen Roberts: Not you’re dumb. But- This is dumb. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: But, you know, this is the law, and this is what you have to do. There are $0 premium Part D out there. Oh, 

Brennen Roberts: interesting.

Sheril Hagie: Yes. Okay. Yes, there are. So for people that aren’t on any medications at all, there are a couple of plans out there that don’t charge a premium. 

Dan Drews: And even if it’s, like, for, like you say, a statin or your thyroid or whatever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Doesn’t matter. 

Sheril Hagie: Doesn’t matter. Yeah. You have to have that Part D plan.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You know, and your latent enrollment penalty, it, it, they’re permanent. They’re for the rest of your life [00:38:00] And the Part D one can go up as you age. You know, so if you go 63 days or more without credible coverage for a prescription drug plan after your initial enrollment period ends, you’re getting hit with that penalty.

Dan Drews: Yeah. So- We need to, uh, uh, make a note. We need to send a note into Dr. Oz to pr- To, to, to, to fix that- Right … part of the, of the program. Yeah, that’s, that, that just seems very punitive for someone who’s not using the program for a given period of time. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Right. And to your point, if you weren’t on any prescriptions, you would never think that you need to do enroll in that, so- 

Sheril Hagie: Right

Brennen Roberts: you know, you, you just, you just don’t think down the road about that stuff. Right. So. 

Sheril Hagie: Well, and a lot of people don’t enroll in Part B either because they’re not sick. There’s nothing wrong with me. What do I need Part B for? Why do I wanna pay $202.90 for something I’m not gonna use? 

Dan Drews: Yeah. And t- high level, right, not to take us down a rabbit hole, but quick, can you kind of explain Part B, Part D in [00:39:00] generalities?

Dan Drews: Like, what, what are the parts? 

Sheril Hagie: So you have Part A- Okay … which is hospitals- Yeah … and hospice- Okay … are all grouped under Part A. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Part B is, um, doctors, think doctor’s visits- Okay … durable medical equipment, um, injectable drugs, like your insulins, um, Skyrizis, things like that. That’s all under Part B, as in boy.

Sheril Hagie: And Part D is drugs, so D, drugs. Part D is your drug plan. 

Brennen Roberts: Ah, that’s right. 

Sheril Hagie: So you’ve got three parts. Uh, well, and then you have Part C. I 

Brennen Roberts: was gonna say, I was gonna say C. 

Sheril Hagie: You have Part C, which is your Medicare Advantage plans. 

Brennen Roberts: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Yep. So you have A and B, and if you just have A and B, and D, you need a supplement.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: You need to throw a supplement in there to pick up the 20% Medicare doesn’t cover. Medicare covers 80%. Medicare is A and B. That covers 80%. You need that supplement through a private carrier to pick up the extra 20, and then you need D for your drugs. Now, if you don’t wanna go that route, you can go an [00:40:00] Advantage plan route And that is Plan C.

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: That is A, B, and D all lumped together in one plan called C Plan. 

Brennen Roberts: Okay? And that’s provided by, like, 

Sheril Hagie: a- A private carrier … Aetna, a 

Brennen Roberts: Blue Cross 

Sheril Hagie: Blue Shield- Mm-hmm … type of thing? Yeah. Just like your supplemental carriers, they’re private insurance carriers. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Wow. Which, which… Yeah, and that, that could be confusing too.

Brennen Roberts: Like, again, I was, I’d thrown into helping manage my dad’s and at- Mm-hmm … at one point he had an Advantage plan, but at some point I was getting the paperwork, I couldn’t follow it, and at some point they changed the… He lived in a rural area, they changed the, uh, geographic area- Yes … of coverage, so he needed…

Brennen Roberts: So I thought the plan, he would automatically, you know, be enrolled in the same plan the next year- No … but I was overwhelmed by it and I didn’t realize it, and 

Sheril Hagie: he- Yes. And that’s a whole other conversation- … um, between your supplement and your Advantage plans, your geographical area. Medicare’s by zip code and county.[00:41:00] 

Sheril Hagie: Um, so there’s a, um, a portion of Aurora that is DuPage, Will, Kendall, and Kane. Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: It’s all four counties. 

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm. So… And there’s actually a street in Aurora where three of those counties come together on one street. So you’ve got people talking to each other in their cul-de-sacs, but they’re all in different counties.

Sheril Hagie: Oh, 

Brennen Roberts: gosh. 

Sheril Hagie: And one has this plan, one has this plan, and this one wants this plan, but it’s not available. Well, why is it not available? I live right next door. Well, you pay your taxes in Kendall, they pay theirs in Kane, right? So different- Different counties, different plans. Wow. Yeah. And your plans go by your geographical area.

Sheril Hagie: Will County, Cook County, they have the most Advantage plans offered because they have a huge population. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: And they have a lot of medical centers, right? You live somewhere out in the boonies, say like Streator, Illinois, where I was born and raised, there’s not a lot of [00:42:00] options out there- 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: because it’s a town of 12,000 people.

Sheril Hagie: They don’t have a hospital there anymore. You gotta be trucked to Ottawa or Rockford or Bloomington. So what they offer there isn’t the same as what they offer in Ottawa, Illinois, right? And also, Streator’s got a dividing line. They are Le- LaSalle County and Livingston County. So one side of the street at 12th Street is LaSalle and the other side is Livingston.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Not the same plans. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, which can be even more confusing- 

Sheril Hagie: Right … 

Brennen Roberts: if you’re trying to help your parent through this, and- 

Sheril Hagie: Right … 

Brennen Roberts: maybe you don’t live… Maybe you live across the street from them. You’re like- 

Sheril Hagie: Correct … “This is what I understand.” So… 

Brennen Roberts: And 

Sheril Hagie: that’s a whole other presentation- … that, that I have.

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. And yeah, so- It’s, 

Brennen Roberts: it- 

Dan Drews: It’s funny, as- I, I can s- clearly see why people come to you to be the expert on trying to navigate this stuff I know. It’s funny, 

Brennen Roberts: as we’ve gotten into it, it’s like, like Medicare is just the tip of the spear. Correct. And like how confusing that is, it’s like long-term care is a whole nother topic.

Brennen Roberts: Correct. The end benefits. So it’s, it’s like Medicare’s the [00:43:00] simpler part of the whole process. Right. It’s, it’s- 

Sheril Hagie: And that’s why I educate versus sell, right? We all like to make money. I mean- Mm-hmm … that’s what we do. 

Brennen Roberts: Sure. 

Sheril Hagie: W- that’s how we pay our mortgage, right? But I would rather educate you first on what’s out there.

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. And I always tell my clients or potential clients, “I will educate you on everything and whatever you wanna know, but I let you make the ultimate decision as to what plan you wanna go in for your Medicare.” And the more eyes and ears, the better. So if you have kids, invite them in if they wanna come.

Sheril Hagie: I- A spouse, invite them in. 

Dan Drews: I think that’s a great idea. 

Sheril Hagie: Right. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. So- Right? Because they g- they’re gonna have to know what mom and dad are signed up for. 

Sheril Hagie: Correct. 

Dan Drews: Like, even like the, the story you shared where the daughter called you and say, “Hey, when did we switch?” 

Sheril Hagie: Right. 

Dan Drews: If, if sh- if the, she hadn’t been knowledgeable out, about it, the, it, we never would’ve known the switch happened.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And that plan, her doctors weren’t in that plan. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. [00:44:00] 

Sheril Hagie: So- 

Dan Drews: So she’s gonna start incurring a 

Brennen Roberts: whole bunch of out-of-pocket costs- 

Sheril Hagie: Correct … 

Brennen Roberts: and may not be aware that it’s gonna happen. 

Sheril Hagie: Correct. So I first and foremost educate, and I wanna educate to not only the parents, but their children if they wanna be involved.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: And, uh, there are some children that don’t wanna be involved, or the parents don’t want them involved. You know, I will have children find out that they’re working with me and call me and say, “Hey, what’s going on?” You know, I can’t legally tell them anything unless the parent releases that. Yeah. So it’ll be a three-way phone call.

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. And I’ll be like, “Hey, you know, Margaret, your child is on the phone. What are we gonna do here? What do we wanna do?” 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You know, things like that. So you also have to be careful, um, as well. But yeah, the more eyes and ears in a meeting- Yeah … the better we are. 

Dan Drews: Well, yeah. Especially if one of the children has healthcare power of attorney- 

Sheril Hagie: Correct

Dan Drews: things like that. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: We always run into that. You want healthcare power of attorney. It’s [00:45:00] something I suggest- Mm-hmm … even if you’re healthy, um, is getting a healthcare power of attorney. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: It doesn’t… I don’t care how old you are, especially if you’re… Not to change the subject, if your kids are going away to college, you need healthcare power of attorney on them ’cause they’re 18.

Sheril Hagie: We went through this with my daughter. Her appendix ruptured at college. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. And the doctors couldn’t tell you anything, right? 

Sheril Hagie: Exactly. So you want healthcare power of attorney. I don’t care how old you are. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You don’t wait till Mom and Dad turn 65. You know, it’s not gonna kick in until something happens anyway.

Sheril Hagie: It’s not like you can go say, “Okay, pull the…” Uh, you can do that. But, “Okay, no, we’re not doing this.” They’re of sound mind and can make their own decisions. It’s not gonna kick in until they’re not. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Right? 

Brennen Roberts: I’ve had the same thing, like, you’re so worried, like, navigating. I don’t know how far away your, uh, daughter was, but, like, you’re hours away.

Brennen Roberts: Six 

Sheril Hagie: hours, 

Brennen Roberts: yeah. Six hours, you cannot be there. Like, “I wanna talk to a doctor. What’s going on?” 

Sheril Hagie: Right, [00:46:00] and she’s- “I wanna 

Brennen Roberts: help.” They’re like, “I’m sorry. We can’t tell you.” 

Sheril Hagie: Right. She’s on the phone and giving me permission to talk to them while we’re driving down to Missouri. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. Yeah. Stressful drive. 

Sheril Hagie: You know?

Sheril Hagie: Very stressful. So yeah. So you always want medical power of attorney- Right … or healthcare power of attorney. 

Brennen Roberts: Yep, yep. I mean, one of the things we’ve said with, uh, lots of previous talks we’ve had with previous guests is, like, just start the conversations early with your parents. Correct. You know, ask questions.

Brennen Roberts: It doesn’t have to be like, like, “Give me access to your bank accounts. Tell me where your stuff is.” Right. You’re just, just asking simple questions. Right. You know, like, “Hey, how do you… Like, how do you get your prescriptions filled? Like, who… How do you pay for it?” Correct. Like, what do you… How do you got…

Brennen Roberts: That kind of stuff and, you know, and you can always, you know, couch it in the premise of, like, “Hey, I was thinking about this,” or, “I’m gonna set things up for my- Uh, yes … my kids and the estate,” and, you know. 

Sheril Hagie: I always did conversations with my dad. He moved in with us in 2012, and I wanted to know as much ab- as much about him as I could.

Sheril Hagie: For personal reasons, because I [00:47:00] wanna let my kids know, right? But also for selfish reasons as I wanted to write his obituary when he did pass away- Mm … the best of my, to the best I could, right? He worked at this place for 45 years or 50 years. He loved to do this, this, and this. So make it as unobtrusive as you can when you’re grilling, I call it grilling-

Sheril Hagie: your parents. Like, I would just go s- in and sit on my dad’s bed and be like, “Oh, hey, so, you know, when did you do this?” You know, and I, I had a book that I wrote everything down in So if you’re just talking to them and being like, “Oh, where do you get your drugs filled? Because I might wanna go there.” 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Sheril Hagie: You know, make it like that.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, do you have a healthcare power of attorney? What if something happened to you when you were in a car accident? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You know, what if somebody rear-ended you or something- … and they had to take you via ambulance? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Or you tell the story, your daughter. Like, oh my gosh- Right … we didn’t set it up with her, so we set up my daughter.

Brennen Roberts: Right. Like, whose- Well- … whose yours? We need yours. 

Sheril Hagie: And that was one of the [00:48:00] first things we did when my dad moved in, is he hired an attorney, he did a will, and he did a healthcare and financial power of attorney, so we had it in place. He was not in good health when he moved in, that’s the whole reason he moved in- 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm

Sheril Hagie: uh, because he was not in good health. But you’ve got to have those difficult conversations, but don’t make them a difficult conversation- Yeah … if you can help it. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You know, just go in and just make it a regular conversation and slip things in here- Yeah … and there. Um, then when I wrote my dad’s obituary everybody was like, “How did you know all of that?”

Brennen Roberts: I had the 

Sheril Hagie: book. Well, I had 10 plus years. 

Brennen Roberts: Talked about him, right. Yeah, yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Right, 10 plus years- Mm … of talking to him- 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm … 

Sheril Hagie: just in a conversational matter- 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: manner. Um, and then I would write it all down. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s good. 

Sheril Hagie: And it, and it’s easier for you too as the adult child when something like that does happen, ’cause now you’ve got it all written down and you’re not…

Sheril Hagie: You’re so upset when something happens, you’re not racking your brain and forgetting something. Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You can just slide that paper across to the funeral director, which is what I [00:49:00] did. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. And, you know, it’s all right there. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: But you wanna have that conversation too about healthcare, about insurance, about do you have life insurance?

Sheril Hagie: Like, I should’ve had that conversation- Oh, gosh … long before I did with him. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, do you have long-term care? You know, things like that. Maybe we should start looking into this. Mm-hmm. You know, don’t be demanding. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Which- 

Brennen Roberts: We, we had talked about, uh, with our financial planner just the, uh, the, the National Association of Insurance Commissioners report about how much billions of dollars go unclaimed ’cause people don’t know that their parents had life insurance policies- Correct

Brennen Roberts: and stuff, so. 

Sheril Hagie: Correct. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, always, always good to start early and have those conversations and, you know, again- Right … it’s not like ripping off a Band-Aid, it’s just like, you know- Yeah 

Sheril Hagie: No, and, and especially with Medicare, you’ve got to have these conversations ’cause you don’t want them hit with these penalties, right?

Sheril Hagie: ‘Cause these penalties follow them until they pass away. 

Dan Drews: Well, let’s kind of circle back to that too. We’ve talked a lot about these penalties and the [00:50:00] penalties for not enrolling on time in Part D. Uh, when that happens- Mm-hmm … I imagine people are pretty distressed. Is there anything they can do to fight the system, or are they kind of stuck with the penalty?

Sheril Hagie: They’re kind of stuck with the penalty. Okay. I have some people, a handful of people that are on penalties. I did have a woman in Bolingbrook write this, our senator and congressman about it- Of course she got nowhere, but it made her feel better. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. Um, which, and I applaud her for that- 

Dan Drews: Yeah

Sheril Hagie: for taking the time to write, because she didn’t know she had to. And- She had no defense because it’s in the Medicare & You book every single year. It is posted online. You are mailed stuff that does say if you don’t enroll, you’re gonna get hit with a penalty. But she overlooked all of that because she didn’t have anybody to help her.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: So- Well- … you know, in Part D, that’s… They’re both following you, but Part D [00:51:00] goes up as you age, as the national base premium goes up. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Right? 

Dan Drews: I mean, that, that’s the part that really sticks with me- Mm-hmm … and that I didn’t know it before our conversation today, is this penalty that goes into place that now you’re stuck with forever, essentially.

Dan Drews: Y- 

Sheril Hagie: you are. Yeah. And the older you are, the higher it is, because as you can see on the slide- Mm-hmm … it’s 1% of the national, national base premium. You know, and you multiply that by the number of uncovered months and round to the nearest $10. 

Dan Drews: Ugh. 

Sheril Hagie: So right now it’s 38.99 is the base premium. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: So my example, if you delayed enrollment for 20 months, you would pay an extra $7.80 a month, 20% times the 38.99 equals 7.80, on top of your monthly plan premium.

Dan Drews: In perpetuity. 

Sheril Hagie: In perpetuity. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: And as that 38.99 goes up, your penalty goes up. So- 

Dan Drews: I, I gotta ask, is… what’s the latest, the, [00:52:00] the… what’s the biggest penalty you’ve seen? Like, what’s the latest- The- … somebody’s come? 

Sheril Hagie: The biggest penalty I have personally on my books is 24.99. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. Yes. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. So like- Yeah

Brennen Roberts: 60% of that- 

Sheril Hagie: Yes … on 

Brennen Roberts: top of that. 

Dan Drews: Ugh. 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. And if you’re someone that’s on some high dollar drugs, most of the time a $0 premium plan isn’t gonna be good for you, so you’re gonna be paying a premium as well for that drug plan on top of- The, the penalty, then the premium, and then your drug costs, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sheril Hagie: So a lot of people might not be able to afford that. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well- 

Sheril Hagie: Um … 

Brennen Roberts: yeah, especially if you’re on a budget, that makes a 

Sheril Hagie: big- 

Brennen Roberts: Correct … impact on your 

Sheril Hagie: bottom line. It, it does. It makes a big impact. Yeah. So education is key. Sure. Paying attention is key. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Sheril, are there any other, uh, topics that we haven’t hit on today that, uh, you think we gotta bring up before we, uh, before we let you go from our conversation today?

Sheril Hagie: So what I would love to bring up is [00:53:00] enroll online. If you don’t have help, call me. Call somebody. If you don’t like me- If you don’t want a female, um, I don’t care, call somebody. But call somebody that’s knowledgeable on this to help you. Um, it is hard. Like I said, you’ve got to enroll. You have to know what’s going on.

Sheril Hagie: Um, nobody wants to be paying all this extra money to the government if they don’t have to. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Okay? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: We pay enough on it. We pay enough as it is. You don’t wanna be paying anything extra if you don’t have to. Education is key. Start the process. I don’t care if you’re 60 or 63, and you wanna come and have a conversation with me, I’d be happy to do that with you, just so you know what’s coming.

Sheril Hagie: Okay? You’ve got to know what’s coming, and you’ve gotta start this process when you’re 64, not 65. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. And I would say if you’re in your [00:54:00] 50s and you’ve got aging parents, encourage them to make the call. Correct. And, and, uh, you know, make sure that they are as prepared as they need to be as well. So this is- Yes

Dan Drews: not just if you’re going into it, but if you’re the children of people going into it, make sure your parents are on the game. 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: And make sure you know where you’re applying. So you’re applying at ssa.gov. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You can call the Social Security office, or you can book an appointment at your local Social Security office.

Sheril Hagie: Now, I will say, when I was in there a week or two ago trying to get some booklets and stuff, they were not taking appointments at that time. 

Dan Drews: Really? 

Sheril Hagie: Yes. So I don’t know if it was just that particular office, but I did say them, hear them say they were not taking appointments anymore- Hmm. 

Dan Drews: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: at that time.

Sheril Hagie: So strictly walk-in, and there’s a wait time, and they are understaffed. So you can call. You’re gonna wait on the phone forever. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: I had one person tell me she hung up after four hours. 

Dan Drews: Oh. Four hours? Wow. Oh, 

Sheril Hagie: man. [00:55:00] So ssa.gov is going to be your friend. Um- And just do it sooner rather than later. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Just- 

Dan Drews: And if, and if, and if you, if any people out there watching are intimidated even for c- to call you and set up an appointment, give, give us a gist of kind of what that first appointment’s like.

Dan Drews: Just probably get to know you and understand what they need, huh? Yeah. So 

Sheril Hagie: yes. What the first appointment’s going to entail is I’m gonna ask you to bring your current insurance card, your driver’s license. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Sheril Hagie: Um, and we’re gonna go over everything. We’re gonna go over, have you enrolled in an ssa.gov account?

Sheril Hagie: No? Great, let’s do that. Let’s try to get you enrolled in that first and foremost, ’cause that’s where you’re gonna go to apply. So you need that a- that account set up. Um, what are your thoughts on moving forward with Medicare? Do you have any concerns? Um, excuse me. What type of medications are you on, if any?

Sheril Hagie: Because that’s gonna determine what type of Part D plan that we’re going to enroll you in. Um, what [00:56:00] are your thoughts on a supplement versus an advantage plan? Um, things like that. Do you have any questions on an advantage plan? Do you have any questions on a supplement? Do you have questions in general on what Medicare A and B cover?

Sheril Hagie: I can point you in the direction. I can print documents out for you to take home. You wanna call me anytime, call me. If I don’t answer the phone, leave me a message, I will call you back. If you want me to come to your home, you feel more comfortable there, less intimidating, I can do that. 

Dan Drews: If you want a good Italian beef sandwich.

Sheril Hagie: Right, I can do that. 

Dan Drews: Well, and, and Sheril, I applaud you. You’ve mentioned it a couple times. You’ve got a heart of an educator, and I think anybody in this space for aging folks or the kids of aging folks really needs that for topics like this, because it’s important for them to not only go through the steps, but understand the steps like you’re talking about as well.

Dan Drews: And, and 

Sheril Hagie: that is key. You wanna understand it. You don’t [00:57:00] want somebody talking at you. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Sheril Hagie: Because then you’re never going to understand it. Yeah. You’ve gotta have communication back and forth. They need to be asking me questions in order for them to understand it. If I feel like they’re not comprehending what I’m saying, I will print stuff out or I will just jot down notes.

Sheril Hagie: Mm-hmm. Or I will type up notes, and I will give them to them when they leave and be like, “So this is what we went over.” Mm-hmm. “

Brennen Roberts: If 

Sheril Hagie: you have any questions, call me. I don’t care, call me.” I had somebody call me at 10:00 one night. I answered the phone. I normally don’t. I answered the phone because I saw, I knew the phone number.

Sheril Hagie: You knew 

Brennen Roberts: who it was. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. And I was like, there’s got to be a problem here. 

Brennen Roberts: Yep. Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You know? And, and I always tell my clients too, if there is a problem and you’re call… Like, you’re, you’ve been taken by ambulance to the hospital or whatever, and it’s the middle of the night. Mm. My phone goes to sleep at 10:00 PM, I’m not gonna lie, wakes back up at 6:00 AM If I think it’s somebody that’s gonna have [00:58:00] a problem, I will put them in my favorites list, and then that phone call will ring through 

Brennen Roberts: Mm.

Sheril Hagie: Um, if you’re somebody that you’re calling me during the day during business hours and I don’t pick up and you’ve left me a message, I- my message says 24 to 48 hours for a return phone call. If you can’t wait that long, and they just keep calling, call… I will answer the phone, even if I’m with a client.

Sheril Hagie: Or I tell them, “Text me 911.” 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: Don’t call 911. Like, text me 911- Yeah, 

Dan Drews: 211 … 

Sheril Hagie: that it’s, it’s important. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Sheril Hagie: You know? Yeah. I need to call you before the 24 or 48 hours timeframe that I give in my, in my voicemail. I’m, I’m generally always calling you back- 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah … 

Sheril Hagie: within a couple of hours. Yeah. Anyway, but yeah, education is key.

Sheril Hagie: Having other people in the meeting is key if you can. Um, and just starting the process when you need to start the process. Three months [00:59:00] prior is when we actually need to start it. We can’t start it before. We wanna start it at that three-month timeframe, but if you want education before that three months, call me.

Sheril Hagie: Yeah. I will help you through the process. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. And what’s the best way? Should they call or email? Either way 

Sheril Hagie: fine with you? Either way. Okay. Yeah. Either way is fine with me. Yeah. They can call me. They can email me. 

Dan Drews: Great. 

Sheril Hagie: Text message is okay. Um- I get a zillion a day, so sometimes that might get overlooked.

Sheril Hagie: So a phone call with a voicemail if I don’t answer or an email is, is a lot better- 

Dan Drews: Sounds good. 

Sheril Hagie: Well- … than a text message … 

Dan Drews: we could not appreciate having you on today’s episode more. You’ve been fantastic. I applaud you again with your heart of an educator, you know, trying to teach people about this, uh, topic as well.

Dan Drews: Because I tell you what, my head’s spinning- … even just from the conversations we’ve had today, too. So- Yeah. Uh, I w- I wish I 

Brennen Roberts: would’ve had this conversation several years ago. 

Dan Drews: I know. But I’m gonna go back now- Yeah … and I’m gonna have a conversation with my [01:00:00] parents to make sure that they’ve got everything buttoned up, too.

Dan Drews: So, uh, so Sheril, thank you again for, uh, taking the time with us today and helping us navigate all this topic and assist our seniors to continue to find them a way to age in place and kind of have a, a fulfilled and healthy retirement. We really appreciate the knowledge. Yeah. And Brennan, thank you as always for being a sponsor of the program, for Seniors- Yeah, mm-hmm

Dan Drews: Helping Seniors and helping bring these educational pieces to the area. Yeah. We, uh, we appreciate that as well. Thanks. Well, as we say, 

Brennen Roberts: it takes a village, and there’s a lot of great people out here like Sheril out there looking- It does … out for people, so. 

Sheril Hagie: It takes 

Brennen Roberts: a village for sure. Good to connect 

Dan Drews: here.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Well, listen, folks, uh, we look forward to you joining us next time for our newest guest, and look for more content on some of these topics on our Facebook and YouTube pages as well at Seniors Helping Seniors Greater Naperville. But until then, folks, as we’ve said, it does take a village- … so do your part in the village.

Dan Drews: Thank you for joining us. I s- I 

Brennen Roberts: stole your- And we’ll 

Dan Drews: kind of talk here a little bit … I stole your thunder on that. You did. That’s okay. It takes a village. I 

Brennen Roberts: [01:01:00] forgot that was in your last part of 

Dan Drews: your 

[00:00:00] 

Dan Drews: Hello everyone and welcome back to Aging In Place, the Greater Naperville Areas Family Guide. Our goal is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle-aged adults, typically in their forties to sixties, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting aging parents.

Dan Drews: While raising their own kids. We wanna help their parents age as gracefully as possible and reduce stress through education and community connection. It takes a village folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover through expert guests that know the local area very, very well.

Dan Drews: I am your host, Dan Drews, and with me is my co-host and sponsor, Mr. Brennan Roberts, the owner of Seniors Helping Seniors. For the Greater Naperville area, and we wanna thank one of our other supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who is a great advocate for all businesses that [00:01:00] support seniors in the Naperville area.

Dan Drews: Brennan, so good to see you again. How’s everything at seniors helping seniors? 

Brennen Roberts: Uh, well it’s great. We just got back from the, a great expo that was, uh, sponsored by Triad, which is a great organization of, uh, public and private partnerships. Pulling together senior resources. So we had a great crowd coming through last night today, kind of checking us out, some great conversations, seeing all the great resources.

Brennen Roberts: So, you know, as you know, you know, we just provide a portion of the help that, uh, seniors need. You know, we really focus in on helping them stay at home as long as they can and helping ’em great age with the grace and dignity they deserve. And, you know, we provide non-medical services such as companionship.

Brennen Roberts: Personal care help around the house, and we do it through this very unique intergenerational model where we look for very active, caring, mature seniors. So for us, when we go to an expo like that, I wanna talk to people and I’m like. [00:02:00] Are you looking for care or do you want a job We can talk to? Either one of ’em can 

Dan Drews: help with both.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. But it was great. You know, as you know, one of the things we wanna do is help connect our families and clients with the right resources in there. So there’s a ton of great people there, but, but when you talk about resources for seniors, we have. The right person here today to talk. 

Dan Drews: Brennan, you nailed it right on the head.

Dan Drews: Folks, we have got a fantastic show for you today. I’m super excited to tell you we’re gonna be focusing on one of the premier and leading organizations in the entire United States for retired people, the AARP, and to help us with that, we are joined today by an absolute expert on AARP, the Associate State Director for advocacy and outreach for AARP.

Dan Drews: Courtney Hederman. Courtney, thank you so much for joining us. She has been a leader in the AARP organization for over 20 years and has a wealth of knowledge about the organization and the way it helps its members, and [00:03:00] she is set to share it all with us today. Thank you so much for joining us. 

Courtney Hedderman: Thank you.

Courtney Hedderman: Thank you for very much for having me. I appreciate it. I’m very, very, uh, excited about our conversation 

Dan Drews: and, and a, and a card carrying member of the sandwich generation too, right? 

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah, I am indeed. I am. You know what? I started my career at AARP and I was not a member technically, age wise. I am now in my early fifties.

Courtney Hedderman: I am raising kids. I’ve got aging parents. And I am literally smack dab in the middle, so I know exactly where everybody else might be feeling too. Well, I, this is great. We’re talking about all 

Dan Drews: this. I think that’s a fantastic story too, because from your tenure through AARP, like over those 20 plus years, yeah.

Dan Drews: You’ve probably transitioned from viewing AARP from, you know, someone in their younger years to now someone who really. Sees it as an advocating program for your parents, yourself, other people you know too. Courtney, as we’re preparing for today’s discussion, Brennen and I were learning a [00:04:00] lot of surprising facts about the AARP and kind of its origin story. Why don’t you start us with that, like a big picture view of AARP? 

Courtney Hedderman: Sure, absolutely. So our, uh, we have an incredible story. So our founder, her name was Dr.

Courtney Hedderman: Ethel Percy Andres, um, she grew up in California. And came to Chicago, um, for school and she was involved with the whole house, which has an incredible story in itself. Became an educator and then she essentially had to move back to California to care for her aging parents. So, became a caregiver, was an incredible part of her professional life, is she became the first ever woman principal in the state of California.

Courtney Hedderman: Wow. So I think that’s pretty cool for her professional life. And then what happened? She retired, um, and she ended up running into a colleague or a former colleague who had a traumatic health, the catastrophic health event, and ultimately had depleted all of her assets and the nest egg she [00:05:00] had built and, and became destitute and was living in the back of a property in a chicken coop.

Courtney Hedderman: And Dr. Andres was so overwhelmed. By that she created, um, the National Retired Teachers Association and the sole premise to get retired educators healthcare insurance. And so the amazing part of this story too, mm-hmm. Is that in two years she was successful and then she started hearing from people across the country saying, wow, this is amazing that you did that for retired educators.

Courtney Hedderman: I’m a retiree too, but I’m not a teacher. I wasn’t a teacher, but I need health insurance as well. And so she took all of that, created AARP at her kitchen table at the age of 72, and then now here we are. We’re closing in on 70 years of existence, and we are way more than a one person at a kitchen table.

Courtney Hedderman: Now we’re in all 50 states. Um, three [00:06:00] territories. We have these, you know, incredible nationwide organization now doing a whole bunch of stuff. Incredible. 

Dan Drews: An amazing story. 

Brennen Roberts: Incredible. I mean, there’s so much to love about that. I was like, one of the things, like the fact that, you know, she’s 72 years old is not too late to change, make an impact, do something.

Brennen Roberts: I mean, look at the legacy that she has built and not starting too late. A lot of people, you know, we talk to. You are thinking about career and change and what do I do and stuff. And I would just say, you know, it’s, it’s not too late. 

Courtney Hedderman: You know, never too late. Absolutely not, never too late. And she is definitely an example of that.

Courtney Hedderman: And, and she really had an incredible mi like our mission is to serve, not to be served. And I think. Coming from that perspective she had from the beginning to where we even are now, is really an incredible legacy to have as an organization. 

Dan Drews: Now let’s talk a little bit, tie that into your origin story, like how you became to work for the AARP and now you’ve been with them now for 20 plus years.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Was [00:07:00] that story, was that mission part of your. Desire to join the organization. 

Courtney Hedderman: You know, I, from such a young age, I have always wanted to help people feel that I helped someone. And in fact, I remember being in high school and my, oh my goodness, my English teacher, I was out doing like the tag days.

Courtney Hedderman: For the Knights of Columbus. Mm-hmm. You know, like going up to the cars and you’re giving out, and he was just like, you are going to do something in your life. You’re gonna serve people, you know you’re going to help people. Mm-hmm. You’ve had that kind of mission or that energy. From very, very young. And, and so I, I have had, I feel like, an illustrious career in the sense of, you know, really having that mission be something that’s important to me.

Courtney Hedderman: I wanna be involved in, in helping people in the end and feel, you know, I might not do that every day, but I try Yeah. To, to really help as much as I possibly can. So, yeah. From. You know, I’ve been in advocacy for a [00:08:00] long time, community programming for a long time, and AARP was a really good fit, really from the beginning.

Courtney Hedderman: And now, I mean, I kind of thought, oh, maybe I’ll just be a few years. Mm-hmm. And then I’m moving on to something else as a lot of people do, and that’s okay. And then I just realized, no, wow, this is a really great fit for me. Yeah. Not only personally, but obviously professionally too. 

Dan Drews: Flash forward two decades later.

Courtney Hedderman: Yes. And yeah. Yeah. And I’ve had major life events, marriage kids. Yeah. And now I am, you know, again, I’m, I’m representing myself. Yeah. Which is a very different feeling from when I first started. I, I’m helping people. I’m, I am, you know, helping to connect them to services and supports, but now I have a different frame.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. Which is. Yes, I’m doing those things, but I’m also thinking and have to think and should think about myself and what I would need as a person who’s, yes. Thinking about my kids and getting ready for college or, you know, raising teenagers. Yeah. And then also helping my own parent and making sure that her end of life and her fourth [00:09:00] quarter or whatever.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. Is, is giving her the supports and services that she needs, and where do I fit into that and how, how do I help myself and not only for the situation I’m in right now. Yeah. But then in my future. 

Dan Drews: Let’s talk, let’s talk about that for a little bit too. Like the, the perspective that you being involved in this organization has had as you kind of reflect on your parents, right?

Dan Drews: Because as we said, you’re right in the sandwich generation with us right now. You got the kids, you got the parents that are aging too. Uh, how has your job or your work with the AARP kind of reflected on the way you kind of prepare your parents and or kind of view the, uh, uh, the resources maybe for AARP for your parents?

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. You know, I th well, first of all, I mean, uh, luckily, AARP is a, a large organization. We have a lot of services and supports, and I think that I, I tried to help having conversation with my own parents. Mm-hmm. I, you know, I like my husband and I just actually put our own affairs [00:10:00] in order. Mm-hmm. And there were certain things that I had to think about, we had, we had to think about.

Courtney Hedderman: And then I realized, wow, there’s some things that I don’t even know that my mom would want or need or think about or what, what kind of, you know, thoughts is she having around some of these things. Mm-hmm. And we hadn’t had that kind of conversation. I think for me is like, oh wow. We’re, I’m in a caregiver situation.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. Although she’s very independent. Mm-hmm. She’s doing great. There’s still, I realize like that is only gonna, the need for me to be more involved is gonna be more and more sooner. Yeah. Um, and what, what kind of conversations do I need to have more upfront? Um, and I think that is, I’ve taken that a lot.

Courtney Hedderman: We do a lot around caregiving. And I think when I think about caregiving. Some people don’t ever think of themselves as a caregiver. They’re, it’s my parents raising their kid, that’s my mom. Mm-hmm. Of course I’m gonna help my mom. And then you are like, no, you are doing a lot. Um, you are [00:11:00] gonna, I’m gonna help my mom to the doctor, or I’m gonna.

Courtney Hedderman: You know, gosh, do I need to go and run and pick up her prescription? Or you know, why don’t you come over for a meal? ’cause you haven’t, you know, been over for a little while. Or are you feeling a little isolated? She lives alone. So I am thinking about her social connections and making sure she’s not just going to my kids’ game.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. But she’s really connecting not only with us as a family, but then what other connections does she need to make with her own peers. And her own, you know, her own folks. So then she feels connected in this much, much larger way than just like with her family. Yeah. That’s important. But there’s other stuff, right?

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. Very great. 

Brennen Roberts: You know, we, we talked about this, uh, just in a previous episode with, uh, Keith Kiker Chen. Mm-hmm. We talked a lot about, he’s same as us, kind of the same boat. And, uh, we had talked about this idea of the 40 70 rule. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that. Yes. It’s a framework, right? So it’s like you should.

Brennen Roberts: When you’re 40 and or your parents are 70, like [00:12:00] you need to start the conversation, but it’s, you know, you can’t just jump in and be like, where’s all your assets? How much money you got, kind of thing. Right. So we really, he, he talked about this framework which we really like is called the path to transparency.

Brennen Roberts: I know AARP’s got some great resources for it too, but like, how do you have those conversations where it doesn’t feel like intrusive and you kind of like. And you start ’em earlier and a little gently like, Hey, I just, we just did our estate. Did you guys do it? Yeah. And we’ve seen stats on, uh, you know, the, we saw like the, what was it, the 2025 Trusted will report, and it was like, what percentage of.

Brennen Roberts: People know where their parents’ estate documents are and it was like dismal, 40% or something like that. So like even something as simple like, I don’t need to know, but where am I look, where am I finding or who am I talking to? Right. In a bad event kinda thing. 

Courtney Hedderman: And I think too, it’s really important for older adults to have to be open to.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. So outside of us. Kids, I’ll say, I’m still a kid, right? Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] Um, I, I need to be having those conversations with my parent, right? Um, but also she has to be open. To, wow, I need to give up some of this information. I don’t want to be not prepared, I wanna be prepared. I want my kid to feel prepared, um, in any decision making throughout the entire process.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. Um, we have like an incredible program called Prepare to Care, and there’s like five steps around, and one of the, like the very first step is about having difficult conversations. Mm-hmm. And the difficult conversation might not just start with like, I need to take your keys. Right. Because that’s a really big one, right?

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. Right. It could be just, Hey, I got my affairs in order. I got my will, I got my advanced directives. Do you, do you have that? Yeah. Have you done that? Mm-hmm. It could be very simple and subtle as that. Um, so then we were actually, I was just at a decluttering, if you can believe this. Mm-hmm. A, a program around decluttering and, and, and really downsizing to a, to an extent.

Courtney Hedderman: But we had this great conversation about. [00:14:00] You know, you have, people have a lot of stuff. Um, we all have a lot of stuff. Mm-hmm. And, you know, maybe you need to give your stuff before you actually pass. Why are you leaving it in a will? Why don’t you give your stuff beforehand? Right. So then you can maybe even like, say with jewelry, for example.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. Then the person could wear it. You could see them enjoying it. Maybe it’s your card collection or your coin collection, but you see somebody actually enjoying your stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then you also have the wrap Well realization too that. They might not want your stuff. Yeah. It’s more stuff. It doesn’t mean anything to them.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. That’s hard. 

Brennen Roberts: But yeah, which is maybe why people don’t wanna give it away. 

Courtney Hedderman: It’s like, that could be true. 

Brennen Roberts: It means so much to me. Are you gonna appreciate this flowery China set that I’ve got? Right. 

Courtney Hedderman: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. So, but you gotta put, you know, things in perspective. 

Dan Drews: Well, I like what you were saying there too about some of the resources of AARP and if we could, let’s go through some of the different areas that AARP can help folks because.

Dan Drews: At, at the first time I joined AARP mm-hmm. As a card caring [00:15:00] member now myself. 

Courtney Hedderman: Thank you for being a member. 

Dan Drews: Thank you. And, uh, but I, I had a very narrow vision of what they did. Mm-hmm. And boy, you, you really cover a wide gambit of topics mm-hmm. For the senior community. 

Courtney Hedderman: Sure. So, I kind of like to say we’re kind of in four buckets, so.

Courtney Hedderman: You know, our, we have a national board, we have priorities that we set as an organization, and it’s really based on the information we get from our membership. Like what, mm-hmm. What does our membership want us to work on, on their behalf. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Even in politics, 

Courtney Hedderman: right? Yeah. Even in politics. Exactly. So we kind of fit into a couple of frames and, and really ultimately like there, depending on what’s going on in the world, essentially.

Courtney Hedderman: It depends on what our kind of number one priority or 2, 3, 4, and so we’ll always be, we will always work on healthcare related issues. We will always work on financial security issues. Those are the bread and butter, right? Because you have people who are fixed incomes, [00:16:00] you have people who are spending basically a tremendous amount of money or most of their money around healthcare coverage costs and just that whole piece.

Courtney Hedderman: So our, our financial security and our healthcare are kind of almost hand in hand. And depending on what’s going on that, that bucket of. A priority might be healthcare one year, and it might be financial security the next year. Um, we work on utility issues. A lot of people don’t actually know that. Um, but those are very, um, Liv livability, um, is a big piece.

Courtney Hedderman: And so you think about pocketbook issues and nothing ever goes down, right? I mean, we’re talking about the cost of. Our utilities like gas and water and electric, that never goes down. Right? Inflation is not a negative. Yeah. It is never a negative number. And so we, we look at that. We also look at livability, livability communities.

Courtney Hedderman: You know, you wanna age in place. We’re talking about that. Right? And, and there’s an element of making sure that people are in a, in a community. That allows them to, to age in place [00:17:00] so they have some, you know, supports and services so they can stay in their home as long as they possibly can. How is a community, livable?

Courtney Hedderman: Housing, transportation, all of those types of things. We work on that because that, again, that is what, uh, people want to live as long as they possibly can be, as healthy as they possibly can, have as much money as they possibly can. Mm-hmm. And, and be, be and live in the most respectful and dignified way.

Courtney Hedderman: And that also depends on what’s going on around their community and around, you know, their actual physical space. So. It’s all kind of into that, I’d call it four buckets. But, um, there’s a lot of nuances within each bucket. Those are big buckets. Yeah. Big buckets. So we go into advocacy, which is obviously you made mm-hmm.

Courtney Hedderman: Reference to this. So we. You know, our community, state, national group, um, does, that’s where our, we’re on the hill in Washington. We are in state legislatures. Um, we are, you know, as a state office here in Illinois, we are, are [00:18:00] representing our folks, our membership with the general public and their families that 50 plus in, in Springfield, in local, um, you know, advocacy government areas.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, and at the, at the same time, then we’re doing community programming because if in fact we have a, a, a piece of legislation that was just passed mm-hmm. People need to know about it. How, how is it gonna affect them? Um, and so we’re doing a lot of community programming at the same time too, which is gotta take that complicated material and issue, break it down so people understand how not only they can take advantage of those, you know, supports and services.

Courtney Hedderman: But also at the same time, wow, you, you’re gonna need supports and services. Yeah. What do you need? And then here, take action. That’s where the advocacy piece comes in. Well, and I would assume by the size and scope of AARP, you probably have a good ear to bend in when it comes to political, uh, uh, uh, advice orli, uh, political, uh, uh, nudging, if you will, in regards [00:19:00] to policy, because if I’m a senator.

Courtney Hedderman: And I know AARP wants to have a word with me. I think that probably should carry quite a bit of weight, I would think. Yeah. I mean, I would like to think so. I mean, we, we are non, a non-partisan organization. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So we’re working with both sides of the aisle. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we, we do not have a political action committee.

Courtney Hedderman: We do not endorse candidates in any elected official. Mm-hmm. Um, but what we do do is voter education. What we do do is issue related things, and we have 38 million members across the country and 1.7 live of, of them live in Illinois. Wow. So, I’d like to think that Okay. We, we, we have some people that we know what our membership is, is interested in maybe Yes.

Courtney Hedderman: A, a, a candidate and or, you know, that elected official should policy, 

Brennen Roberts: policy, not parties. 

Brennen Roberts: Right. Partisan. Yeah. 

Courtney Hedderman: You know what things, non-partisan things. Yes. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, retain an anecdote early in AARP or. Tasked with chasing down Governor Blagojevich in the city, something like that. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yes, yes. Yeah, no, I mean there, the best part is, and I, I like [00:20:00] being in this space of, of Nonpartisanship, like we are working with both sides of the aisle.

Courtney Hedderman: There it, it is wonderful to concentrate on issues. We live in a very polarized society right now. Right. When I, not to get too political. Yeah. It, we really, people are passionate on both sides. That’s wonderful. There’s a lot, I think less in the middle. I think we are very, like I said, very polarized. So for, for AARP and me, particularly in what I do.

Courtney Hedderman: Is, I don’t have to think in those terms. Mm-hmm. I get to concentrate on issues. What does an older adult and or their family member need to have a dignified life? To have senior, you know, to have supports and services, to have their healthcare, have their financial security, all of those things. It is a great position to be in instead of.

Courtney Hedderman: You know, 

Dan Drews: having the referee in the middle. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

Dan Drews: Well, and I know AARP too focuses on a lot of timely issues right now, and if we can go to the next slide too, one of the, uh, topics has really come up a lot of [00:21:00] fraud and scam alerts too. I know. I talk to my parents about it all the time.

Dan Drews: Being careful what you click on and be thoughtful of what’s real and what’s not, and what’s AI and what’s not. Yeah. Uh, I am, I’m glad to see that that’s a focal point for AARP as well. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah, no, that is a major priority for us as an organization. Um, frauds and scams are, it does not matter what your age is, frankly.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, however, uh, the, the amount of fraud and scams, particularly to the over 60 and 65 plus. Is extraordinary. So the actual, uh, FBI comes out with, it’s called the Internet Crime Center report. Mm-hmm. And they, they, they deliver that every single year. And in 2024, they had the amount of people that were being scammed.

Courtney Hedderman: And that’s what’s reported. Yeah. So let’s just say that’s not, everything’s only reported only. No way. And they reported it A lot of times there’re. It’s embarrassed to tell you a hundred percent. There’s so much shame and embarrassment. Mm-hmm. Which we want to debunk because mm-hmm. [00:22:00] People should report if, if hopefully they can get maybe money back.

Courtney Hedderman: But they’re also not only helping themselves, they’re also helping then someone else too in reporting. So, but o out of that report for 2025. Um, there, the, there was 80% of people scammed, and billions and billions of dollars was over the age of 60. Yeah. Um, and the amazing part that just, it, it, it just literally makes me wanna cry.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, the, the largest around and, and just financial fraud, just so people are losing tremendous amount of dollars is around cryptocurrency. Oh. And it went from 2024. It went from like almost $4 billion lost. To 2025, over $11 billion lost. 

Dan Drews: So it is bel It really is. It’s, I mean, people throw around terms like unbelievable.

Dan Drews: That really is almost unbelievable. 

Courtney Hedderman: It’s unbelievable. And so like, so last year was the, not the first time, but like for AARP Illinois, it was [00:23:00] where we really dived into fraud advocacy. So not, yes, we wanna talk about prevention tips and we wanna make sure people are safe. But we really need to move into an advocacy.

Courtney Hedderman: We need policies and procedures that help protect people. So we actually, uh, passed, um, a bill sent a bill 2319. It was around cryptocurrency kiosk, which around 95% of those transactions at kiosks, which you can see a grocery store. Yeah. You can see at a gas station. They just look like regular ATMs. Yeah.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, the 95% of those transactions at those kiosk are fraudulent. 

Dan Drews: Oh my. You are kidding. 

Courtney Hedderman: And so I, I, I, it’s in incre. I didn’t know that. Yeah, that’s, it’s insane. It’s insane. Um, and so they’re, the cryptocurrency has not been regulated. Um, and it was not regulated in our state. And those kiosks, those operators of those kiosk, there was no regulation at all.

Courtney Hedderman: So that’s what, that’s what that, um, now law sets up, is that regulation. Um, and now there are states like. State of [00:24:00] Indiana is now looking, you know, they actually just passed a ban on crypto kiosks. We have actually local advocacy efforts going on. Will county’s looking at, um, banning, you know, kiosks in the county.

Courtney Hedderman: Like, so I think that there is this trend of, of taking what, you know, like what we know is fraudulent activities and where it’s taking place and putting some parameters, and that’s where the policy and the advocacy pieces come in. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s fascinating. 95%. Fraud. That’s a pretty easy number I would hope.

Brennen Roberts: Putting in front of somebody like I think so we, do not need these around, 

Courtney Hedderman: so, no, for sure. And so anyway, AARP, um, April 1st, like hard launched an effort called Becoming an Illinois Fraud Fighter. And it is all about getting those prevention tips, those alerts, what are the latest frauds and scams so people feel informed as much as possible and they can then spot a scam hopefully before it ever takes.

Courtney Hedderman: Place, and then there’s reporting measures. So then if in fact, heaven forbid they do, [00:25:00] they then know how to then report and what they would need to know. Um, and then hopefully, eventually take action too. Like, Hey, state senator, state rep, my congressional member, this bill is up in, you know, uh, if for a vote, this is, this would help me help our, you know, citizens to, um, to protect ourselves against fraud.

Courtney Hedderman: Like we have a, a measure in Washington right now around. Um, it there, in fact, it wasn’t that long ago, there was a couple in Aurora that they got caught in that grandparent scheme. You guys probably heard about the grandparent scheme. They thought their grandson was in a jail. Yeah. In Europe. 

Dan Drews: And for, for our listeners who don’t know about it, walk ’em through what that scheme is real quick.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. So they got a call. Yeah. Um, they got a telephone call and they literally were hearing from a criminal who was indicating that their grandson and they knew the grandson’s name. Mm-hmm. Um, that, and he was traveling in another country and said that he, um, had some sort of an event and [00:26:00] has now jailed and needs bail money and that they need to send that money immediately so he can get outta jail.

Dan Drews: Oh my gosh. 

Courtney Hedderman: And, you know, um, I, you, you, it is so, and I really want everyone to hear this and really understand this. We might be talking now and be like, how did they fall for that? Oh, mm-hmm. But it’s so very easy. The, the conversation, they be coming, they, they literally take you, they know enough detail to like go, so you really think it’s real.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. Um, and there’s so many other ways to do that. They do that online now. They do that on a phone call. People come to, they text messaging, which is a whole other thing. Mm-hmm. There’s so much in that AI piece too, which you made reference. They’re, they’re so sophisticated and it was, it can be so easy to fall for it.

Courtney Hedderman: And so they, they did. They did. And they ended up taking out retirement. They took out money from their retirement savings. So here, here’s what then happened. They took out money. They wired the money, so they lost that money. So that’s [00:27:00] already a problem. Mm-hmm. But then what happened is they got a tax bill from the IRS.

Courtney Hedderman: Oh. ’cause they took out that money and it wasn’t ta like, so now it’s taxable. So we have legislation pending in Congress right now around if you have a fraudulent activity that happens to you and you’ve now, you know, you’ve done the steps of reporting so you know that you, they know it’s fraudulent.

Courtney Hedderman: They should not be being taxed, double penalized for it. So you’re, you’re double penalized. Can you imagine? That’s how awful that is. Oh my God. 

Brennen Roberts: It’s like kicking somebody while they’re down. 

Courtney Hedderman: A hundred percent. It’s like, it’s like putting the like gasoline on the fire. Yeah. Yeah. And not necessary. So like those types of policies and those types of, um, advocacy really efforts.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. I think we could go and do more than we even have on the books now. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. And that’s what we’re trying to, and that really benefits like a local area, like the Neighborville. Police department, they do a great job. There’s social workers going out and talking to organizations about, here’s the top scams and stuff.

Brennen Roberts: So the fact that you’re out there fighting mm-hmm. To make change, and then you’re providing education and information, [00:28:00] and then you’ve got people locally like. The Neighborville Police Department kinda out there helping educate people. Kind of the boots, boots. Boots on the ground as, as boots on the ground.

Brennen Roberts: Ground. For sure. It takes, it takes a village, my friend. 

Dan Drews: Well, it does. Absolutely does. Right? I mean, it’s kind of interesting, right? You’ve gotta be advocates for illegal money activities. Mm-hmm. But then you’ve also gotta be advocates for. Actual money and life planning. And I, and I know AARP does a lot of that too.

Dan Drews: I mean, there’s a lot of fraud and scams, but in addition to that, AARP focuses a lot on, you know, what you can do to kind of manage your life. Mm-hmm. And be thoughtful of where the next five or 10 years are gonna take. 

Courtney Hedderman: Oh, no, for sure. So, I mean, I think when, especially for somebody who maybe is getting closing in on retirement mm-hmm.

Courtney Hedderman: You know, they’re, they’re wanting information on those retirement days and those years they’re about to hit, right? Mm-hmm. So like what decisions do they need to make, um, in, in that timeframe to set themselves up for success in [00:29:00] retirement? But then those folks that are currently in retirement. They wanna keep their money.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. They wanna grow their money, right? Mm-hmm. So then they can live out the golden years, as they say, right? Yeah. And so there is a portion of our membership that is thinking before retirement, and then there’s those that are past retirement are like within the throws of retirement and they’re looking to grow.

Courtney Hedderman: And so you put all that together. It, it comes down to making sure that social security is solvent, making sure that financial, um, regulations are. Are sound, so then people are in a position of making sure there is retirement savings. Mm-hmm. And that it is protected, that it is growing, is all of those things.

Courtney Hedderman: So again, people have what they need when they need it. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. And I think it’s been great too. Like I’ve been impressed since becoming an AARP member myself. Mm-hmm. I’ve got the AARP app on my phone. Oh yeah. And that’s a pretty robust app. And it’s, and with that are a lot of. Articles and, and just information pieces on some of these different kinda life planning [00:30:00] topics that while AARP is not a financial advisor, financial planner boy, they really give you a good encyclopedia of different things to think about as you’re trying to navigate those years.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah, no, definitely. And I think, yeah, yeah, you bring up the app, I mean the magazine, the bulletin, those publications. Um, our, I really do have a lot of sound advice, and, and I would, I’d like to think that we’re an organization that’s advice and referral and, and really connecting a connector. So sometimes we don’t do that direct service, right.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. That sometimes people really hone in on. We we’re not direct service providers, however, we’re connectors and information, um, givers and, and all of that. And I think that. Um, ultimately our brand becomes a trusted, hopefully, mm-hmm. Where we are, um, a trusted friend and then a fierce defender. 

Brennen Roberts: Oh, that’s a nice way.

Brennen Roberts: So, yeah, and you, I, I think you also, like, you enable and educate. [00:31:00] Some of those people like us that are doing direct connections to Right. Be better service to seniors and help ’em out. 

Courtney Hedderman: Right, exactly. So then when somebody, a member’s calling and saying, Hey, I’m looking for this, or I’m looking for that, that’s when we are able to, you know, hey.

Courtney Hedderman: Come, we know exactly where you should go. We know exactly what you should be doing. You should be going to senior helping seniors, you know, like that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Well, and, and in addition to a lot of common questions and common referrals too, I also appreciate the fact that AARP reflects on some kind of uncommon conversations.

Dan Drews: Like one of the next slides talks about the way that families really support being caregivers. And I don’t think, you know, I think a lot of people have the perception that as people age, they. You know, just miraculously have this ability to live in their house or they just go someplace else, but kind of ignore some of the ways that families need to move mom in or go see mom every day or do something to kind of help [00:32:00] support the aging population.

Courtney Hedderman: No, definitely. So there, here’s a few little stats. So in Illinois we have 2.2 million. Unpaid family caregivers. Wow. So meaning they are not individual, they are family. They might actually, you know, again, be a, a trusted friend. Um, they are not paid, they are not working for an agency, nothing like that. So they are an unpaid family caregiver.

Courtney Hedderman: That’s how we define them. 2.2 million in our state. Um, and that’s amazing. They are providing ready for this, they are providing almost $22 billion worth of care. Yeah. Unbelievable. So if you then extrapolate that out, you have, we’re like, they’re literally saving our healthcare system a tremendous amount of money in this kind of situation.

Courtney Hedderman: However, you have family caregivers that are drowning every day. It is a thankless job. They’re doing tremendous amount of things. They are, you know, helping their person mm-hmm. [00:33:00] Day in and day out. They are helping with wound care, they’re helping with medication management, they’re helping with daily tasks, cooking, taking transportation.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. All of these things. And they, they really sometimes become almost more unwell than the person they’re caring for. And I’m sure everybody’s heard a story like that or they know somebody in that situation. They are working so hard to care for that person and then they’re struggling themselves.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It tough Add in a full-time job or kids and all that stuff. 

Courtney Hedderman: You have those folks. Yes. They’re, they’re helping their kids. They’re helping these folks. They’re helping their parent. I mean, this is where there is a tremendous burden on those folks. 

Brennen Roberts: We, we see that all the time. I mean, part of our mission is just, I like we are there as much for the families as for the clients.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. You know, you really want people to be, continue to be a husband and wife or a son and daughter first, you know? Right. It’s a blessing that people have the support network that can provide [00:34:00] that. They, they don’t always, which is where we can summon to help, but, you know, when we come in, I just see it as much as anything.

Brennen Roberts: We’re helping the family as much as that. ’cause you’re right, it’s, it’s just the levels of stress and you can stretch at both ends and you’re just. Life, happiness and health and it just impacts everything. Yeah. When you’re giving so much to somebody else. 

Courtney Hedderman: No, a hundred percent. And let’s face it sometimes, right?

Dan Drews: We love mom and dad. But we don’t always see eye to eye with mom and dad. Right. And so there’s this, there’s this, uh, family dynamic mm-hmm. That’s probably exacerbated many times by having to care some for someone in that situation too, so. Right. Um, I think you’re, you’re right, Brennan, when you talk about.

Dan Drews: The way that, um, seniors helping seniors or other organizations and the AARP can shine a light on this segment of the population that is like, as you said, carrying so much weight for the entire healthcare system. 

Courtney Hedderman: No, definitely. And I, you [00:35:00] know, I think that they need a, like. Unpaid family caregiver caregivers need a lot of support.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. Um, we, we’ve actually the last, I mean outside of, I would love to see, uh, a, a tax credit for those folks. Mm-hmm. Which is something we’re working on. Yeah. Um, I mean, they’re just. Spending a tremendous amount of their own money mm-hmm. To help, help their family. Um, and, and we actually just passed two years ago.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, it’s called, well, we’re calling it a, um, we initially, I think, started really calling it like a hub and like a digital hub, but then it moved into a caregiver portal. And it, it’s really about, you know, the person who’s in the hospital with their mom or their dad or their uncle or, or aunt or whoever, family member.

Courtney Hedderman: And they’re, they’re finding out, oh, this, your, your person’s getting discharged from the hospital in three days. Mm-hmm. And they have to make major, major decisions. Are they going home? Are they going to facility? What do they need? What do they need at home to be at home? What do they need in a facility?

Courtney Hedderman: You know, where are they gonna go? [00:36:00] And then they’re Googling like, what am I gonna do with my mom? 

Brennen Roberts: Here’s the sheet of resources that you got. 

Courtney Hedderman: A hundred percent. And our, sadly, our, we’re getting better. But our aging network, um, really across the country, not just here in Illinois, is very fragmented. You go in one door, but it doesn’t mean it opens up everything someone’s eligible for.

Courtney Hedderman: And so we’re hoping that the caregiver portal is, it’s obviously a resource that will be. Initially for caregivers, obviously, because they’re gonna not just have to Google like, what should I do for my mom? Mm-hmm. Yeah. They’re gonna be able to then access a whole host of information and resources and multiple situations and scenarios, like maybe they need home delivered meals, meals, but they need adult day, they need transportation.

Courtney Hedderman: They need. All these other things instead of, okay, I’ve I’ve gone here and then there I don’t even know about anything else. ’cause what do you, you don’t know what you don’t know. Yeah, yeah. And you don’t know what you need until you’re in it and you’re like, I really need this. 

Dan Drews: Well, I told Brennen, it’s kind of relays back to what you were talking about.

Dan Drews: The, [00:37:00] uh, expo sponsored by the Triad Organization here in Naperville was an excellent way to kind of get this broad view of all the services available. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. It is, it kind of opens your eyes of like, oh, I didn’t know that, or I didn’t know there was a service for that. Mm-hmm. And you know, they’re, they’re, if you think there’s a need, there’s probably somebody out there helping to solve it.

Brennen Roberts: You just gotta find them. And like you said, it’s fragmented. There’s basically organizations like AARP, you’ve got, you know, the. Government entities like the police force, you’ve got not-for-profit, for-profits. It’s, it’s a big, it’s a big puzzle for sure. Which is, I think part of the reasons why we got excited about this podcast is kind of like helping educate people what they are.

Brennen Roberts: But I was just gonna build, it was, it’s kinda interesting the whole idea of like the stress and the caregivers. ’cause it’s obviously we, we have caregivers left and right, but it’s probably, I would say probably because we usually are, we’re, we’re, we’re appealing to like a. Mature caregivers is what we’re looking for.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. And I would say probably, I don’t know, it’s probably like 80 to 90% of our caregivers I always wanna start the conversation with, it’s like, well, [00:38:00] what led you to us? And mm-hmm. To talk about it. And it’s like 80 to 90% are probably like, you know, I had to be a caregiver for my mom or my dad or my grandma, or somebody like it was a family member.

Brennen Roberts: Like they did it. They took on that personal burden and they were saying like, I saw. You know, how impactful it was and what it was needed and stuff like that. And I’m at a point in my life where I thought I wanted to do something for somebody else who, yeah. I saw what it, I saw an impact it can make. So it’s a, it’s a nice story.

Brennen Roberts: But yeah, the whole, uh, impact on the families and mm-hmm. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, you said it’s such a hidden. Hidden benefit for the healthcare system and also like such a, like a, there’s a cost associated with it. 

Courtney Hedderman: Well, and you think about too, just the term caregiver, that really didn’t exist in our vocabulary mm-hmm.

Courtney Hedderman: As a society 15 years ago. Really? Yeah. It’s, it’s relatively a new term ’cause and most people don’t consider themselves a caregiver if they’re caring for their mom or their, again, other relative. That’s just who you. Mm-hmm. [00:39:00] That’s what you should do. Mm-hmm. That’s just what I do. I’m not really a caregiver.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. When No, you really are. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. It’s one of those, and it’s not only the expense associated with taking care of mom or dad, but you then can’t go get a job. Right. You limiting your income simultaneously. And so that tax break I think is a fantastic idea for it too. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yes, we think so too. Yeah, we think so.

Dan Drews: Joe, politicians and uh, government, please, uh, tune into that. Well, you talked about Brenda a few seconds ago. You talked about the kind of the wide scope of. Things that this, uh, expo put on. There’s a wide scope of things that AARP can help with too. And one of the things that I really want to talk about is just this wide portfolio of advice that AARP can give, right?

Dan Drews: Because it’s not just, I mean, you do a lot of wonderful things here in Illinois. You’re doing terrific, right? But across the nation, you’ve got this really cool. United States slash global view of retirement and what it [00:40:00] looks like in Illinois and Wisconsin and Florida and everywhere else. And it’s a great place to go for some of this advice.

Courtney Hedderman: Yes. So we have a network called Age Friendly, and we are affiliated actually with the World Health Organization. And so, um, age friendly is a designation that a state could get, A community could get, um, all the way from like a local municipality to a township for example. Um, and that age-friendly network essentially is about sharing.

Courtney Hedderman: Those best practices on having a livable community. So someone can age in place, someone can have that, those supports and services, and they’re going to live this dignified life. Right? And so this network, which I think is super cool, um, it, it, it not only can, um, provide, you know, resources and all sorts of other types of information, but then you can, it’s like say here, we’re here in Naperville.

Courtney Hedderman: We can get [00:41:00] information on an an initiative that’s going on in Maine or in New York or California or wherever. I mean, like they’re. Is age-friendly designations, again, per state, per community. And we have 15, um, in Illinois right now, and they’re like smaller municipalities, but the state of Illinois is actually looking to be an age-friendly state.

Courtney Hedderman: Oh, wow. Which is really awesome. There is the Illinois Department aging just did an, and it was in conjunction with a lot of organizations including AARP called the Multi-Sector Plan on Aging. Mm-hmm. And it’s really looking at a 10 year trajectory of. Of really aging in our state and what, what are the supports and services that are gonna be needed so we can really ultimately support our older adults.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. And part of that multi-sector planning was we need to be an age friendly state. We want people to stay here, live here. For the rest of their life and what do they need to have that happen? Mm-hmm. Um, and that’s a big part of what then, not only getting that designation will do, but it’s really [00:42:00] then planning for, wow, what do they need?

Courtney Hedderman: How are we gonna deliver that? Who’s gonna deliver that? Yeah. And all of these other kind of connecting points. So we’re super excited, but we, we have a whole division of AARP around livable communities and age friendly. And we’re super excited about that work as it continues to go on. 

Dan Drews: Well, I love that too, because people, you know, have some default places that they think they should retire to, but having this wide scope, like.

Dan Drews: Uh, we got into a discussion just the other day, like, oh man, it’d be nice to maybe retire to Wisconsin. Well, Wisconsin’s got some very specific, uh, uh, taxation laws that you better be aware of, come to retirement account, right? Mm-hmm. And, um, if, if it’s not for an organization like AARP to kind of shine a light on some of these differences, you could seriously make a bad choice and not even know you were doing it.

Courtney Hedderman: That’s true. You do really have to think through these other kind of points, right? And other, um, moments in your life that you’re gonna have to think about. Okay. Yeah. Those tax [00:43:00] implications, you know, how is my home going to be fitting me, my car? Even like learning those types of things as, as we age and how we can benefit from that.

Courtney Hedderman: I think some of the resources AARP offers is really great in those spaces. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Outta curiosity, I put you on the spot, but how does. Like the Naperville area, Western DuPage, are they, have they received that designation or are they. 

Courtney Hedderman: They’re thinking about it. Okay. So that’s actually one of my goals is to have, uh, DuPage County.

Courtney Hedderman: Okay. Be an age-friendly county. Um, and there’s many other than individual municipalities as well. Um, but I think, and, and really this area is doing a lot, right. I mean, they’re, they’re really thoughtful and I think the leaders are, are truly trying to mm-hmm. Incorporate. Wow. What, what, how do we make sure our, our safe, you know, our streets are safe.

Courtney Hedderman: So like you think about lighting and curbs, like things that. People don’t always, like planners, might not expect [00:44:00] to think about. Mm-hmm. But like, as someone ages and our community gets older, what do they need? Well, okay, so we’re gonna need to make sure our sidewalks have, you know, ramping type of things.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. So where it’s, it’s safe for folks to be coming off of a curb or coming onto a curb if they were even, in fact on a wheelchair. In a wheelchair, or, you know, having, having some sort of other medical device all the way from just again, lighting. Uh, lighting on making sure that there’s enough light for all of us.

Courtney Hedderman: Like, I don’t know about you guys, but I can go into a restaurant. The eyes are not as good as they used to. 

Brennen Roberts: That’s where you pull out your phone, you’re like, I can’t read this. 

Courtney Hedderman: It’s, it’s like, why did, all of a sudden, no one ever tells you that in age, by the way, the eyesight changes. 

Dan Drews: Who hit the dimmer switch for crying out loud?

Courtney Hedderman: Why does that do that? 

Brennen Roberts: What, why is, why is mom using a flashlight? 

Courtney Hedderman: Right. So, I know that sounds so silly. Yeah. But it’s something that we, we deal with. Right? And so, making sure though, that when you think about livable community. Yeah. So you think about a, a, [00:45:00] a person who’s aging in that community, what are those things?

Courtney Hedderman: And it could be just as simple as just great lighting as someone’s driving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it and or just their walking. Right. 

Dan Drews: Well, I think one of the areas too, certainly I’ve noticed that Naperville is really working on too, is the engagement, the civic and social involvement there up on the slide that I think is a.

Dan Drews: Is a big, proactive piece of the game plan for Naperville. Yeah, so my hope is that they do earn that designation. ’cause I know they’re working well. 

Brennen Roberts: I feel like based on the. Energy and the people I saw at the expo. And then if you personally are putting your spotlight on, then I feel pretty confident we’ll get there here pretty soon.

Courtney Hedderman: I don’t doubt it for a second. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Well, I, I wanna move to another topic that AARP Most people think AARP retirement. I’m on the beach, my pina colada, right? I’m golfing all the time. But there are people that really wanna stay active, right? And there are professional services that AARP offers. In order to help aged people mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: [00:46:00] Still become very active and part of the workforce too. 

Courtney Hedderman: Right. Okay. So I’m gonna probably blow your mind right now. Um, so when AARP was first created, uh, it, it, its name was actually the American Association of Retired Persons. Mm. That’s what the letter stood for. The AARP. We no longer have that. We just stand for the letters AARP, because actually the majority, and again, we have 38 million members across the country.

Courtney Hedderman: Wow. The majority of our membership is still working at some capacity. Wow. It could be, they’re not a full-time person anymore. They could be they, they could be a part-time situation or some sort of other transitional type of work, but they are working and there are so many folks that are certainly over the age of 50.

Courtney Hedderman: That either a want to work mm-hmm. Because they, they love it, they love what they’re doing, or they’re re-imagining their work and they’re re-imagining their career. Maybe they work 30 years and an X thing, and they are now dreaming something new. They have a new dream and they started their own business.

Courtney Hedderman: They have, [00:47:00] um, done, they’re, they’re really creating and reimagining again, their life as, as it relates to work. Then you have folks that. Cannot, they cannot not work because of financial reasons, other scenarios. Mm-hmm. They are sometimes even out of their control and they have to actually work. And so we wanna make sure those folks are supported.

Courtney Hedderman: So we have, it’s called Work and Jobs and we, we have a workforce, um, a board so people can actually look and see, uh, what jobs are available. We are working with employers. To make sure that they realize well, you know, having a mature worker mm-hmm. Is really vital to their mm-hmm. Their ultimate bottom line that they’re, they should be hiring an experienced worker.

Courtney Hedderman: They, you know, and, and nothing against our younger folks. Right. Um, but the, the work ethic that’s an older adult brings. Is usually pretty extraordinary. They have experience, they, they wanna be there. They have loyalty, they have, they have, they do have [00:48:00] technical skills. They have a lot that they can bring and mentor, even those younger folks.

Courtney Hedderman: Mm-hmm. So, concentrating on. An older worker and giving them the shot and giving them the opportunity is really good. Um, good practice. It’s, it’s super smart. And again, nothing to our younger folks, but they’re, they’re, um, they, they’re in a different boat right now. Um, and so I think, uh, employers looking at hiring.

Courtney Hedderman: An older worker is so valuable to not, again, not the product or the service that they’re providing all the way to the bottom line. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I tell you what that is. My dad and he, we had to help move into a supportive living thing. Mm-hmm. And I remember the conversation as we were moving him in with. The, uh, the director there and she had to tell him that he could not have a part-time job.

Brennen Roberts: He was 85 at the time. I’m like, okay, I buy that. But, you know, he, but I, again, he wanted to be a contributing member of the society forever. And I, I gotta be honest with, it’s [00:49:00] for our, for our business, ’cause that’s, we really focus on retire. It is such a, like, untapped labor force. Like, there’s so much like skill and talent and art and giving and stuff.

Brennen Roberts: And, and I love, I see a mix of like, you know, I. Was a stay at home mother and like. Kids have now kind of gone off to college and I need to reimagine kind of what my life looks like. Mm-hmm. And I’m gonna get back, or again, somebody today, a teacher retiring in May and she’s like, okay, I’m gonna enjoy the summer, but come fall, what am I gonna do?

Brennen Roberts: Kind of thing. And I love the opportunity to do that. And you know, for us, at least in our role, which again, they contribute everywhere, but you know, in our role it’s like this, you know, Hey, you’re supporting seniors, you’re are a senior. Like what? Great way to connect. Right. Make it personally. But I, I, I love the, like, such a great labor force and mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: Like reliability, dependability, you know? 

Courtney Hedderman: Oh no, for sure. And you know, I think too, you know, people sometimes [00:50:00] have, they think of retirement that, you know, ’cause I think all of us, especially in our younger years, like we value the work that we have done. And so when you then cut that off. That was such a huge identity marker.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. Because people like, mm-hmm. Think about anytime you’ve met somebody brand new, what do you say? Usually, what do you do for a living? What do you do? What do you do? So what do you say to a retired person? What do you do? Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. People do need a purpose, and so I think when older adults, maybe they, again, they’ve worked their whole life.

Courtney Hedderman: They now are flipping the switch and then they’re retiring, but they get to have a purpose. Then that also brings them in some additional income that they get to think about somehow. Something else that’s going to get them up every day, because they don’t, you don’t wanna just sit at home. Mm-hmm. Like nobody should be just sitting at home.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, they should be doing something that keeps them active, right? So social, uh, you know, involvement and all of those things. And if you get to then actually add some income to it. [00:51:00] I don’t know. It seems like a win to win thing. 

Brennen Roberts: Win, win, win. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And great for the community overall. Right, right. To have people being productive in it too, so 

Courtney Hedderman: For sure.

Dan Drews: I, I just get the sense from talking to you too. You talk about blowing our mind, you’ve blown our mind like five different times in this interview, and I, I, I’ll take that and, and I get a feeling that part of your job is actually. Shattering the perception of what people believe the AARP is, right? Like I, I even look at your magazine here and you and Eva Longoria, right?

Dan Drews: Oh, geez. That, uh, she’s gorgeous. But, but, but really talking about like the perception of what your organization is. Mm-hmm. Who you represent. And the initiatives, the wide, wide, uh, range of initiatives you have. I believe you’re, you know, that’s gotta be just a big part of your job is awakening people to what a AARP does.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes people think of AARP and they’re like borough people, you know, like it’s totally, but now the, mm-hmm. What somebody say Eva Longoria? No, definitely [00:52:00] not. And I think, and there’s actually a great commercial that’s running, um, for AARP that makes reference like. You know, the younger you are, the more you need AARP.

Courtney Hedderman: It’s not the older you are, it’s the younger you are. Oh, yeah. And I think, like, I, I hear from people all the time, like they’ll, the people come up to me. We were at the expo for example, and, and uh, a woman came and said, oh my gosh, I just got, ’cause we were talking about fraud and things like that. She, I just got the bulletin.

Courtney Hedderman: It was all about fraud. Yeah. I learned so much. She’s like, I read those publications cover to cover and I, I’ve been a member since I was 50 and she was somebody who was in her eighties. Now she’s like, I, I have, I, I learned things even at the 50 mark. Yeah. And they’re still relevant to me as an 80-year-old.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. And I think that is a cool part of ARP too. We can be relevant to that whole age trajectory. Um, and, and really tried to disrupt aging. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. And shattering perceptions too. I know you [00:53:00] also have a video out there too. We’re gonna, we’re gonna add a link to this video because it’s so good. Uh, but the, the essence of the video is shattering perceptions.

Dan Drews: Give our audience a little tee up on what the video’s about, 

Courtney Hedderman: so yeah, I do, I do love this video. It’s one of my favorite. So it’s, it’s with millennials and, and those that are older adults, right? And so they bring in these millennials and they, they’ll say, you know, like, what is your age? And they’re, they’re 20 year olds.

Courtney Hedderman: There’s I think one girl’s 19 and, and then they’ll, they ask them what is, like, what do you think old is? And, and they’re, they’re saying age numbers of like forties and fifties. And for me now I, my fifties, I’m like, what? Right. Ah. Um, and, and then they say 

Brennen Roberts: knuckleheads. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. Really? Right? Yeah. And then they say like, so what, what do you think like, uh, how would an older person look like if they’re text messaging and they’re the, you know, these folks are doing the flip phone.

Courtney Hedderman: Flip phone. Yeah. And they’re just kind of like, you know, like, no, they don’t get it. Um, and then they bring in these older [00:54:00] adults and they say, okay, you know what? We’re gonna introduce you to somebody. And they, they kind of come in, it’s pairs. And they tell them, you know, you have two minutes to teach each other something that you’re good at.

Courtney Hedderman: And the one of the best is this woman who’s in her like mid fifties is teaching that 20 year olds how to do a yoga pose. And he couldn’t do it. Yeah. He could not do it. His facial expressions are like, I am a, I can’t do that. And then he really can’t. And then the best part is they, they do that whole kind of segment of sharing.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, both on both sides, you know, which I think is so great. And then they ask them, okay, so like, what do you think is old now? Like, what, what age do you think old now is? And the one, the one is, so speech like, um, a hundred. Yeah. You know, like, and, and, and then there’s, 

Brennen Roberts: she had to recalibrate. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah, she did. She did.

Courtney Hedderman: And then had to go into this whole thing of like. You know what? A age doesn’t matter. Yeah. Like you can still do things. Mm-hmm. You still have things you wanna do no matter what your age is. It’s really a wonderful video that helps really [00:55:00] debunk age and just it disrupts it. 

Brennen Roberts: I’ll just saying that millennials defense.

Brennen Roberts: I can’t do that yoga pose either. 

Brennen Roberts: It was pretty, it was pretty impressive. No, I love that. 

Dan Drews: Uh, that’s the one yoga pose. You can’t, okay. 

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. I just love though that whole perspective of that intergenerational, you, we, we are in a mm-hmm. A, a stage right now mm-hmm. Where we still have people that are from the depression era.

Courtney Hedderman: Yeah. And then you have now what I think the new generation’s called Alphas. Yeah. Like, that’s like the younger like. You know, 12, 13 year olds and, and younger. We have like four or five generations living at one time right now. Yeah. That’s an incredible thing. And we can all learn from each other as much as, and I know, I know that there’s folks that are, are, are watching and listening mm-hmm.

Courtney Hedderman: Who are like, I need to ask my, my grandchild how to access. You know, my, something on my smartphone. Yeah. Um, and, and guess what though? That that older adult can also share this amazing thing that they’re great at, with those, with their [00:56:00] younger, younger family members. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. So cool. From the, from the wake of World War ii Yep.

Dan Drews: To the advent of artificial intelligence. 

Brennen Roberts: We, yeah. That was. Very good. 

Courtney Hedderman: I love that. 

Brennen Roberts: That should be come up with after head the wake of, that’s good. 

Courtney Hedderman: That’s the title for sure. 

Dan Drews: Well, listen, I write a book then. That’s what it’s gonna be. But, uh, listen, you have been fantastic. I mean, I, we, like I said, you’ve blown our mind four or five times in this, uh, in this article.

Dan Drews: What other things have we not touched on or any other critical nuggets that you wanna leave our audience with? About AARP. 

Courtney Hedderman: Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. What a wonderful conversation. I appreciate you so much. You’re doing great work and to have me is it’s, it is a thrill. So thank you so much.

Courtney Hedderman: Um, you know, I AARP is, is an organization that wants to be, uh, there for people, be relevant, whether it’s we’re, you know, on the hill advocating for something all the way to, you know what, let’s, let’s be at a Triad Expo, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. And we’re at a table and we’re giving [00:57:00] out information and, and wonderful giveaways.

Courtney Hedderman: And everything in between. And so, you know, we have a website, aarp.org. Um, we have lots of divisions of ourselves, so there’s a lot of re advice and referral and, and resources. And I just want people to know that they’re not alone. Like AARP is there for you. We wanna be there for you. If you need something, give us a shout.

Courtney Hedderman: ’cause we’re, we’re here. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. I, I think that’s great. Right? Be a member and reach out what you need. 

Dan Drews: Brennen, any other advice for leveraging AARP? 

Brennen Roberts: Well, no, I mean it’s amazing the breadth of resources that are out there and be honest with you. So much of it that you don’t see in a database, like to know that you guys are out there fighting for seniors and you know, doing the good fight is, uh, very reassuring.

Brennen Roberts: And I hope you said this, be sometimes I know no matter. The, the job you might get caught up in the, you know, the mundane or paperwork and all that kind of stuff. So I, I hope the, I hope the opportunities to [00:58:00] realize like the purpose and meaning and mm-hmm. What good you’re doing in the world, uh, certainly are much more prevalent than kind of the grind of all that kind of stuff.

Brennen Roberts: ’cause you guys are doing amazing work and, uh, uh, we, and. The communities all appreciate it. 

Courtney Hedderman: Aw, thank you so very much. Well, thank you Courtney. You’ve, you’ve been excellent. Uh, thank you again for taking your time with us today and our audience for helping us in our efforts to find ways to assist people to age in place in their golden years.

Courtney Hedderman: Brennan, thank you as always too, for helping sponsor, uh, the program with seniors helping seniors. We really appreciate you being a Naperville area guide on topics like this. And thanks to our audience too, for. Watching and tuning in, be sure to make sure and watch our next episode with a valuable guest.

Courtney Hedderman: We’re gonna have. Until then, folks, just remember that it takes a village, so do your part in the village. Thank you everyone for joining.

[00:00:00] 

Dan Drews: Hello everyone and welcome to Aging in Place, the Greater Naperville Areas Family Guide. Our goal is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle aged adults, typically in their forties or sixties, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting aging parents.

Dan Drews: And raising their own children. We wanna help their parents age as gracefully as possible and reduce stress through education and community connection. It takes a village folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover through expert guests that know the local area very, very well.

Dan Drews: I am your host, Dan Drews, and with me is my co-host and sponsor, Mr. Brennen Roberts, the owner of Seniors helping Seniors for the Greater Naperville area. And we want to thank one of our other supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who is a great advocate for all businesses that support seniors in the Naperville area.

Dan Drews: [00:01:00] Brennen, good to see you. And again, how is everything at seniors helping seniors? 

Brennen Roberts: Uh, it’s great. We’ve got a senior expo today and tomorrow with a great organization locally called Triad. So, uh, bringing together a lot of senior resources. Uh, for people in the community about where they can get help. As you know, we just provide a part of the level of service that folks need.

Brennen Roberts: You know, we wanna help our clients kind of age as gracefully and with as much dignity as possible in their own homes, and we do it through things like companionship, personal care, help around the house, non-medical needs. And we do it through this unique intergenerational model. But, um, I’m excited to be here today, uh, with Keith.

Brennen Roberts: And, uh, this is an important topic and it’s, and it’s, it, I think it’s interesting as we were talking about this. Uh, we, we all kind of segue this, uh, about talking about some bigger, bigger conversations than just like financial planning, which maybe we’ll do it a separate [00:02:00] episode, but this is really important and very top of mind.

Dan Drews: Well, we thank you for helping sponsor the episode two, and certainly glad to have. Keith there, folks. Our show today is really gonna focus on how to prepare our parents and their kids, mostly us, for a lot of financial planning issues and to help with that, we are joined today by a Naperville area Financial Planning czar, Mr.

Dan Drews: Keith Kiker. Keith is an experienced financial professional with over 30 years of financial services. Specializing in financial planning, investment management, and risk strategies for individuals and for businesses. Key strong credentials include being a certified financial planner with Series 7 63 and 65 licenses.

Dan Drews: And on top of it all folks, he is grounded in a client relationship pH. Built on empathy, integrity, and clear communication. Keith, welcome so much to the show today. We’re glad to have you, and, uh, hopefully you’ll be able to help us unbox this big topic today. Mm-hmm. [00:03:00] 

Keith Kiker: Thanks for having me. It’s good to 

Dan Drews: be with you guys.

Dan Drews: in, uh, Keith’s introduction? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, I’ll just give an anecdote. I mean, Keith, uh, I got connected with Keith very early in actually both of our careers. So, uh, he’s been, uh. Advisor and friend for us, my family, for over 25 years. Um, and when we first started working together, my brother had a couple of young kids and he hadn’t done any sort of financial planning with his family.

Brennen Roberts: And I recommended after meeting Keith, he’s. Just the way he works about it. He, I recommended my brother work with him, and, and, and Keith set him up and worked with him on sort of like some, you know, emergencies and planning and thinking about the important things he need to do as a young parent. And unfortunately my brother passed away very unexpectedly, not too long after that, that because of the advice and guidance that Keith had given him, uh, really.

Brennen Roberts: Set up his widow and my nephews for, [00:04:00] for life very well. So I think, um, I forever indebted for what you did for our family, but I think that’s a great example of kind of the kind of, uh, advisor you are so 

Dan Drews: well Bre Brennan, an extremely difficult time for your family and thank goodness Keith was there to kind of help bridge the gap on some of these conversations.

Dan Drews: And Keith, with that. Let’s kind of open it up this way, like when is the best time to even start kind of having these conversations or kind of broaching this topic of financial planning, not just for the parents, but for for the kids that are left over when they pass on. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. It’s an interesting question as we all were kicking around ideas for topics to discuss here.

Keith Kiker: Brennen mentioned the 40, 70 year rule, which I hadn’t heard of. Uh, but the idea is when the adult kids are reaching their forties or the parents are reaching their seventies, it’s kind of this moment in time to think it’s time to start having these conversations. So [00:05:00] start early, speak often, and sort of practice having conversations that probably are gonna get harder.

Keith Kiker: As the years go by, 

Dan Drews: talk to me a little bit about the practice, right? When you talk about practice having these conversations, you know, what do, what does that look like and or how does it look like for you? Maybe even to. To kind of talk to mom and dad about, Hey, what do you got in the bank account? You know, how do you, how do you kind of navigate those kind of awkward starter moments, I guess?

Keith Kiker: Yeah, that’s a really interesting question, and I thought about what an unfair advantage I have in a couple respects. Number one, my parents are unbelievable. Um, they’re, they’re gracious. They’ve been in their same home for a long time, and everything’s going fantastic. Um, but I also happen to be their financial advisor 

and 

Keith Kiker: I have been for a long time.

Keith Kiker: And so their discomfort about 

Dan Drews: maybe everyone else then yeah, 

Keith Kiker: it’s their discomfort talking about taxes and investments and things like that, so it’s a little different. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Um, but the reality is [00:06:00] I also have made plenty of mistakes along the road, and as we talk, I’ll give you a couple of examples where.

Keith Kiker: It would’ve been better for me to talk. It started at really high surface level incl, including being, being more thoughtful about asking how they imagined aging in place and what they wanted the next 10 or 15 or 20 years to look like in that respect. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Keith, my per my personal note on that too is as we’re preparing for our conversation today, folks, we kind of had this side conversation and Keith.

Dan Drews: Use those words that I then took and turned it right around to, uh, my mom and dad of mom and dad. What do you think it looks like for the next three to five years on financial planning, living situation stuff too? It was great advice and really opened up a good conversation, so kudos to you for that advice.

Brennen Roberts: I, I mentioned this is very top of mind. I was literally talking to somebody yesterday, a client, and unfortunately his. Uh, [00:07:00] mother 91, but she’d been super healthy for a long time living in her own home, very independent, still driving of all things, you know, DMV Pastor test. Um, but she had a health incident and really things, you know, as you know, things can go pretty south in a hurry.

Brennen Roberts: And, um, she is in a assisted living and. In her recovery mode, you know, the family’s kind of decided that there’s no way she can go back to living on her own. And basically they’re in the process of selling her home. And, you know, the, the, the son was telling me, it’s like, gosh, like how am I gonna tell my mom this, you know, after the fact.

Brennen Roberts: And I know, you know, some of those things are difficult to prepare for, but it’s, oh my gosh, it’s, if there’d been a. Conversation maybe leading up to it and all these steps that said, you know, hey, if you know, life doesn’t always happen how you think, but you know, if these kind of things happen, this might be this and this might be that.

Brennen Roberts: And then you can kind of at least reflect back on that and you write it up. But it is, it is gonna be ripping [00:08:00] off a bandaid if. Yeah. And I’m sure they had some conversations, but you know, it’s, 

Dan Drews: yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: it’s such a difficult thing to have to tell somebody if you haven’t had those right warmup conversations.

Dan Drews: Well, and Keith, you talked to us a lot about being proactive versus reactive, and I imagine even with some of your clients, you’ve got probably some who’s had a, uh, a plan in place for a while and others that are like, you get a phone call and it’s like, oh my gosh, this happened. Where do we start? 

Keith Kiker: That happens more than you would like it to.

Keith Kiker: Uh, everything’s fine until it’s not. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Right. And have another client in a similar situation. If you had to guess who was gonna have a health issue, you would’ve guessed him and it’s now her. And so it’s really tough, right? To suddenly have health care, power of attorney type decisions, decisions about the house.

Keith Kiker: So, yeah, talking earlier is better and, you know, building contingency points. 

Dan Drews: Well, and talk to me a little bit about, paint me a picture of those reactive situations. So like [00:09:00] when, typically when you get a reactive phone call, uh, do, do some of these folks just not know where anything is and how much it is and everything, and are you able to kinda cipher through that?

Brennen Roberts: Well, we, we were talking with, 

Dan Drews: yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Chris Lander, an estate planner. Yes. We looked at some. Numbers, which were really surprising. It was like the, uh, there was like, I think it was like 81% people know they need to do like estate planning, which, you know, financial power of journey. But yet only like 32% actually had done it already.

Brennen Roberts: Right. And there was a stat that we threw up and I don’t remember the exact number, but it was like, do you know where your parents’ documents are? Maybe you don’t even know what they are, but do you know where they found it? It was like, I wanna say it was like 40%, so, right. You know, it’s, uh. A lot of people are caught off guard, don’t know where to go and all that stuff.

Keith Kiker: I I, I think one of the things that happens, Dan, when those moments arrive, is even the most prepared 

Dan Drews: mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: They’re actually consumed [00:10:00] with the crisis. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: My spouse, my longtime partner, had an event, a health event, and all my attention’s right there. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And now maybe you’re suddenly talking to the next generation who’s just brokering information back and forth with their parent.

Keith Kiker: Who’s actually at the side of the hospital bed and yeah. Keith talk to her. Right. So I think that’s, that’s a good point. It’s 

Dan Drews: almost like a triage kind of moment be where they’re just trying 

Keith Kiker: to figure it out. Be 

Dan Drews: It can be. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what, uh, what steps would you kind of recommend or, or how do you advise folks then to kind of.

Dan Drews: Try and create a path towards, um, you know, just being able to be able to navigate this 

Keith Kiker: well. We kind of came up with this idea while we’d been discussing this, and we called it a path to transparency or a pathway to transparency. 

Dan Drews: Okay. 

Keith Kiker: And the idea, we sort of set it up as a funnel where if you can talk earlier [00:11:00] on about a vision for what you know, retirement and the aging process specifically.

Keith Kiker: The health related challenges, maybe the financial, the companionship, what’s gonna happen with community, if you can talk about those things in advance, but at a more surfacey level, it may give you the opportunity to talk about additional things as you move forward. And so we kind of broke it into phases and we actually have, uh, some information available if anybody wants ideas of what those phases are and what questions are in there.

Keith Kiker: We’ll reference that later. But I have a funny. Story, and it’s a kind of a, what’s the, uh, acronym? Uh, Palm on Face. I don’t remember their kids, all their acronyms on the, uh, text. But, you know, mom and dad, I apologize for this awkward moment. Um, but the experience teaches me, and then I convey that to lots of people, like on this podcast or [00:12:00] to my clients.

Keith Kiker: Where we celebrated my parents’ 80th birthday, and I invited ’em to come up and join me and my brother, our kids right, their grandkids in Breckenridge, Colorado. And if anybody knows Breckenridge, Colorado is like 8,000 or 9,000 feet in town. 

Brennen Roberts: Yes. 

Keith Kiker: Well, we drive out there and it’s a blizzard. I mean, there’s so much snow.

Keith Kiker: That particular December was crazy. And as we’re driving, I realized the house I’ve rented is actually at like 10,000 feet. 

Dan Drews: Oh 

Keith Kiker: wow. And the closer we get, the higher my anxiety is. And the dumber I felt to have invited anybody that was celebrating their 80th birthday to this elevation and this climate.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: But my folks have been in Colorado for. 40 years, 45 years at that point. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And they were fine, but when they showed up and I said, park in the garage, don’t leave without supervision. How are you doing? And so on and so forth. It was, it was too early. They were fine. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Right. Yeah. And so [00:13:00] practice surfacey conversations about the vision, and then maybe you find reasons like Susie and I, my wife recently updated our own estate plan.

Keith Kiker: Why? Because there’s still guardians named for my adult children. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don’t think that’s not a thing anymore. Mm-hmm. So there must be some other things that have changed. Right. Yeah. And that’s an opportunity maybe to say, oh, hey, I just did my estate planning update. How long has it been since you did that?

Keith Kiker: Yeah. Right. And you can feed those conversations and maybe more naturally. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: If that makes sense. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, I, I’m with you on that. My mother is just amazingly healthy. Like she’s 86 years old. But I, I, I, I have to constantly remind myself, ’cause I, she’s so independent and active and healthy and stuff.

Brennen Roberts: And I’ll be like with her and doing stuff and I’ll be like, chugging along, walking at my own pace and next thing you know, I’ll turn around and she’s like. 15, 20 feet. I’m like, no, she’s 86. Man, I [00:14:00] gotta like, take this into context. Yeah. And remember, you know, there’s things, so yeah. It’s a, it’s sometimes as children, you always see your parents as their parents and Right.

Brennen Roberts: Until they’re not able to do it and. You know, as long as they can, you’re still like, oh 

Keith Kiker: yeah, they’re fine. 

Brennen Roberts: They’re fine. Right, 

Dan Drews: right. 

Brennen Roberts: Um, 

Dan Drews: now when you deal with some of your older clients, right, some of your senior clients, maybe in their seventies or eighties, do you also give them advice saying, Hey, listen, if you haven’t talked to your kids yet, you need to start talking to them about.

Dan Drews: What they need to know Yeah. In the event that something happens. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. Uh, literally just this last couple of weeks, I was with a client from the Chicago suburbs and her te, her son was available and came to meet. And same thing, we, we’ve been working together for 25, 30 years, and so he’s heard our name.

Keith Kiker: He’s heard my name, but the chance to meet him as she’s entering retirement. Mm-hmm. And kind of understanding this is [00:15:00] one of the people to call. May, maybe the person to call the attorney may be the person to call, right? Where is everything? How much is there? How do we get money if we need it? That’s pretty good idea to meet that person.

Keith Kiker: So we have a lot of multi-generational meetings these days, which have started with the adult child. I have somebody out in New York who literally did the financial planning process with me to strictly vet me to take care of her dad’s money. 

Dan Drews: No kidding. 

Keith Kiker: She came through first and said, I wanna see what, I think really good friends with some clients out there.

Keith Kiker: So she knew it was a good chance it would work. But she went through that whole process and then I flew out and I met her dad and she was there the whole time and he had taken care of things his whole life and he did a great job. But he also had admitted it’s getting a little, you know, it’s getting a little much a lot to keep track of.

Keith Kiker: It goes, it goes both directions. But yeah, multi-generational. Meetings is not at all uncommon for [00:16:00] us. 

Dan Drews: So I’m kind of curious. So take me back to the, the first example you said where, uh, I think the lady brought in her son. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Did he come in with, uh, a whole bunch of questions or no questions, or, you know, like, like how, how, and is that a typical, what does a typical meeting like that go?

Keith Kiker: It, it’s really funny you, uh, ask about that because. Uh, I had the impression that AI may have been involved in the two pages of questions that were generated 

Dan Drews: two pages, 

Keith Kiker: or, because I’ve used AI myself and I kind of had this sense of, 

Dan Drews: yeah, 

Keith Kiker: what should I ask my mom’s financial advisor. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And what was nice was because we do comprehensive financial planning.

Keith Kiker: I was able to say, almost everything you’re asking here, we’re actually gonna talk about in today’s meeting. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And so let’s just let that unfold and then we’ll do, you know, deeper dives where we needed to. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and it was great. It, it was welcome, honestly. That’s 

Dan Drews: great. 

Keith Kiker: Uh, because now he knows me personally and if something comes up, I [00:17:00] have her express permission to speak with him.

Keith Kiker: Right? Mm-hmm. She has a wealth management site where we have everything in one place. And now he’ll, he’ll be a, an interested party, so she said, fine, add him in so he can log in anytime and see my balance sheet and see what’s going on. Mm-hmm. And share information freely. ’cause I want him to know what’s going on.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: That, that sounds like a very, like talking about the path, like that’s a, you know, very good first step. Yeah. Like I kind of generally have this, let’s see some specifics at some point then it’ll be. You know, names on the account or, you know. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: I, I assume that’s, 

Dan Drews: and, and really I don’t blame, I, I, I reflect back on the sun and his list of chat GPT questions may be brought in.

Dan Drews: I would, I would guess that that’s probably what a majority of people would do, because they don’t know what they don’t know. Right. Like if they’re coming, coming for meeting, where do I start with Keith? And how do I know that he knows what he, he should know. Yeah, [00:18:00] 

Keith Kiker: that’s exactly right. You know, you might wanna have a diagram that addresses accounts and holdings and risk management issues.

Keith Kiker: Mm-hmm. Like long-term care or life insurance, legal documents, cash flow and pensions and social securities. And how are the income taxes getting filed? And if you can figure out any way to have a big overview. It’s easier to monitor. 

Dan Drews: Oh 

Keith Kiker: yeah. Right. For instance, if you ever get the chance to look at an income tax return, which isn’t super exciting for people, but if the income taxes are kind of going like this and then they spike one year.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: That’s a year to pay special attention. Yeah. It just happened to somebody that I know. And I’m like, that’s a much bigger bill than we’ve ever seen. 

Dan Drews: Is that typically due to RMDs or, you know, different, different, you know, quirks within their own, uh, financial plan or 

Keith Kiker: there can be any number of things.

Keith Kiker: Yeah. In this particular case, there was some missing cost basis on something that got sold. 

Dan Drews: Oh, okay. 

Keith Kiker: So you are [00:19:00] able to self-report and fix that. Okay. And it wasn’t in the ten nine, ten ninety nine. Um, but in that same case. Even though it was a professional accounting firm, they literally put something in the wrong bucket.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And so they were subjecting this thing to tax that didn’t belong there. 

Dan Drews: Well, as we record today, we’re just right around the close of tax season. Yes. So do you work in conjunction with a lot of accountants or CPAs with the client to say. Hey, let’s make sure we’re reporting everything that we should and in the right way.

Keith Kiker: We, we do work, uh, closely with a lot of the accountants, right? Mm-hmm. And so we’re there to field questions. We don’t file the returns, 

Dan Drews: right? 

Keith Kiker: But we do review and discuss and have some really nice software that can actually take, speaking of AI, can take a 10 40, upload it and actually explain your taxes to you.

Keith Kiker: More clearly than I’m shocked accountants aren’t using this software [00:20:00] because it just gives you this great report and it walks you through here’s how your taxes actually worked in 2025. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. It’s, it’s interesting. 

Keith Kiker: Okay. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. I, I just wanna build on your point about having this. Overview of everything and whether somebody’s trying to do it themselves or, you know, fortunately, like one of the things working with advisor like you, you know, it gives you this nice holistic view and 

Keith Kiker: Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: You know, it doesn’t necessarily mean like a planner’s actively managing everything, but like, you provide resources where, you know, I, I can link accounts and do this and stuff and you know, can see where it’s all at. I just know from, uh, you know, we had a unfortunately, uh, family members like passed away in a.

Brennen Roberts: Suddenly, and the daughter is like, it’s a treasure hunt trying to find out, well, what, what, where were things? And I, what did they have? Right. And you don’t know what you don’t know. And, you know, having that kinda one centralized view of things at some point is, is important. So yeah, I would think, you know, in our, 

Dan Drews: I, I [00:21:00] call up my oh crap binder, right?

Dan Drews: And I got it. And my son knows where it is. Yeah. Anything goes sideways. That’s the go get the old craft binder. Right. So 

Brennen Roberts: step one, know where the oak craft 

Keith Kiker: binder. May, may, may, that binder not be needed for the next 30 years. 

Dan Drews: Amen. Amen. 

Keith Kiker: So, 

Dan Drews: but, 

Keith Kiker: or, or more, I, I would say that as I, uh, talked with, uh, my wife that this was coming up, uh, we reflected on a family member.

Keith Kiker: You’re speaking of knowing where everything is. You’re, you’re really talking about sort of an inventory. Can you inventory every account? Can you inventory every policy? That’s a risk management related item. Can you inventory the sources of income? And unfortunately, eventually you want to inventory things that are also in the house.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. Right. And so one of these stories that you don’t like to hear, but that we were faced with firsthand was a long time friend who was a coworker. [00:22:00] Was visiting this family member in a retirement community, and we started being like, yeah, he comes around a lot, but it wasn’t until we had to start paying the bills because she couldn’t pay the bills anymore.

Keith Kiker: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: So took over. Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: The number of checks that were paid to this one particular individual over and over and over. Mm-hmm. For thousands and thousands of dollars, man 

Dan Drews: Oh 

Keith Kiker: no. Was a big red flag, right? Mm-hmm. And then you ask, where are the coins? That came from Grandpa. 

Dan Drews: Oh, goodness. 

Keith Kiker: Right? 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And so to the extent that you can just be aware before those inflection points come is kind of what we’re talking about.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yeah. Obviously elder abuse or elder skin is unfortunately much more prevalent than you wish it was. It, 

Keith Kiker: it 

Brennen Roberts: is taking advantage of, 

Keith Kiker: it’s a bummer. 

Brennen Roberts: People in their, you know, maybe, uh, you know, repressed state and, uh, not as. Rationally thinking is right. Something we see all the time. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: So, 

Keith Kiker: yep. 

Brennen Roberts: [00:23:00] Um, do you wanna talk through the, uh, steps here or 

Dan Drews: Yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: absolutely.

Brennen Roberts: Specifics stuff? 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Let’s, I love, because I love this model. You know, I think when we started talking about this, we were thinking like, oh, he’s gonna give financial, you know, all this kind of stuff. But we were all, I love the fact we’re all kind of dealing with this kind of stuff at the same time. And, you know, the idea of just how we do this and what are the types of discussions and conversations.

Brennen Roberts: You have that go beyond financial discussions, but more life discussions are great. So, um, we, we talked about again, uh, like your parents live Colorado, you know? Yeah. A thousand 

Keith Kiker: miles away 

Brennen Roberts: and you don’t, you don’t see ’em. My mom lives as much as I like the thing, I see her all the time, but she’s still an hour and 20 minutes away.

Brennen Roberts: But it’s like, what are they, what are you doing on a day-to-day basis? Right. And like, who are your neighbors? And like, you know, I always talk to her and she’s got this very active social calendar, but I’m like. You know, she references names. I don’t necessarily know who they are and, and all that. 

Dan Drews: So I’ll throw one other one there [00:24:00] too.

Dan Drews: I go, I Dad, what’s the name of the guy who helps plow your snow and de-ice your driveway? Right. And so like different things like that that I’m like, okay, I gotta put that in a need to know file folder. 

Keith Kiker: Right, 

Dan Drews: right. Yeah. So, 

Keith Kiker: yeah. Yeah, we’re super grateful. My parents have a neighbor that stayed all this time.

Keith Kiker: Right. And he is a little younger. And so he’s over there shoveling the drive and checking on ’em, but being more aware and connected with him would be a smart thing to do at this stage. Right? Yeah. And I think you’re right about asking those questions. Who’s in the community around you? Those are pretty high level.

Keith Kiker: What’s the routine look like these days? You’re still in the same church, which family stuck around over all the years? Mm-hmm. Because people move on from churches, right? Yeah. So you’ve stuck around who else stuck around? And, uh, make sure you kind of know what’s their sense of community and is that holding up?

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, I mean, this question, it’s a little scary, but it’s so good is the idea of like, who would [00:25:00] notice if you hadn’t been out in a few days? You know? Yeah. Like my mom’s got neighbors at her condo. Mm-hmm. But again, you know, everybody kinda goes in and out and stuff like that. Yeah. Life gets busy. I don’t get a chance to talk to her every day, but, you know, three days go by.

Keith Kiker: Yeah. Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: I do, I do get nervous when I like call and she doesn’t respond. I’m, she’s probably out at her Tai Chi class or swimming right now. Right. But, um, but I, you know, the idea that, and, and conversely it’s like. Did those people know my number? You know, so I think that’s another thing that, 

Keith Kiker: that’s a good point.

Brennen Roberts: Close friends and neighbors. It’s like make sure they know kind of how to, how to get ahold of, 

Dan Drews: even from a technology standpoint too, I know we’ve had families too. Make sure they’re tracking their parents’ location through either, uh, you know, the, their Apple, uh, life 360 interface, or Life 360 

Brennen Roberts: mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: And or get their parents an Apple Watch at the same time too, which then supplants, you know, uh, maybe any other wearable devices.

Dan Drews: Yeah. The 

Keith Kiker: find my, 

Dan Drews: yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. But, but [00:26:00] to your point, you know, again, we were talking with a, you know, a, a. Potential client this week, and the woman has some stability issues. The, the husband works, so he’s away from the house all the time. Mm-hmm. But, you know, they got her, uh, an Apple watch. It’s got this great features where if you notice as a sudden fall, it’ll automatically call 9 1 1.

Brennen Roberts: And she had a couple of, you know, falls and, you know, he might not have come back and found her and gotten her help. For, you know, half the day or three quarters of the day. So there’s some nice technology out there that can kind of help you monitor. So, 

Keith Kiker: yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: it’s funny, we’ve been, as parents, I, I still have my kids on Life 360.

Brennen Roberts: I try not to let ’em know or remind them about it. I don’t need to see what they’re doing at the bars at college or wherever, you know, but it’s nice to know. And, um, you know, kinda where they’re at. It’s really more about a safety and. Being comfortable these [00:27:00] days. 

Dan Drews: Keith, what other areas do you think we should be having conversations with our, our parents about?

Keith Kiker: Well, I, I think that Brynn, as you mentioned, mobility, uh, an easy path to that is just sort of talking about is anything getting harder, like keeping up a house, you know, I know I, I’m working a lot and my wife, the responsibility she has around the house is a lot. Yeah. And so, you know, I know my parents still have that going on, so, oh, there’s somebody mowing the lawn now.

Keith Kiker: Mm-hmm. Really big snow. We’ve got dad not shoveling the driveway. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Right. It’s a bit of a steep driveway and he still likes to get out there and take care of that, and so they’ll be out in the yard. But if you can have some of those routine things, but more importantly for our conversation, the discussion is that, are daily routines getting harder?

Keith Kiker: What? What part of that’s getting harder? Are there errands? That are kind of becoming more of a chore than they used to be. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Right? Mm-hmm. And and on that note, starting to maybe make them [00:28:00] aware of how great, at least on occasion, Instacart could be. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Right. Good point. Like my kids know Instacart way better than I do.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: But in a pinch, that’s a pretty nice thing. And if we get older and we do want to age in place, does it make sense to try? Does it make sense to try and catch an Uber maybe. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: A along the road so that, you know, you have that transportation if you really needed it. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, yeah. 

Keith Kiker: But you practice. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: And I, I think that’s a good to the idea of practice, you know, just like a simple thing is like, you know, a lot of people are independent, like they’re, they, it’s hard to accept help, you know, so maybe start with having somebody mow the lawn or cut the grass, or do the heavy shoveling and stuff, and then.

Brennen Roberts: You know, eventually you need a little more help around the house and, you know, independent and, you know, maybe you use a home care agency. If you don’t have a neighbors or the support system, home care agency, you can kind of introduce ’em like, Hey, we’re just [00:29:00] gonna, you know, help you out with house management.

Brennen Roberts: You know, it could be like light housekeeping or, you know, taking errands, reminding about medication, but you know mm-hmm. Not, you’re still kind of maintaining a lot of your independence. 

Dan Drews: Right. 

Brennen Roberts: And then, you know, you’re kind of there and. And used to it. And then we can kind of scale up and get more service.

Brennen Roberts: You’re used to being able to receive. ’cause it’s hard for people to receive help in many cases. 

Dan Drews: Right. I’m gonna take us to the, our next slide here a little bit too, and talk about some of the things we’re, uh, Keith was just talking about the transportation piece and getting a chance to try and test and, and learn how to take an Uber.

Dan Drews: I think that’s important too. Let’s talk about like the, the next portion on this slide, a little health and prevention. Um, when you talk about the, the, uh, your parents slowing down, uh, the other thing that I have considered too is what sort of things am I doing in the house to assist them with the slowdown?

Dan Drews: For example, we’re gonna do a [00:30:00] bathroom remodel for my parents with some grab bars and things like that. But I, I gotta believe that that’s, you know, certainly part of the strategy to match what the house looks like. Yeah. Again, with what their slowdown is. So 

Keith Kiker: it, it’s certainly a topic of conversation and I heard a great story.

Keith Kiker: Uh, somebody that we, uh, know well. Uh, and I think it would ease the fear for some people that are about to do these kind of changes to their home. So this woman lost her husband and lived alone for. 20 years. She didn’t give up that house until she was 98 or 99 years old. Good 

Brennen Roberts: for 

Keith Kiker: her. So finally, good for her.

Keith Kiker: She goes off to the retirement community. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Well, wouldn’t you know it for a 99-year-old in that house there were grab bars. There were all kinds of things that screamed senior living. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: And that house sold like that to somebody that didn’t want to have to deal with all, like they actually wanted that.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. [00:31:00] 

Keith Kiker: And so as, as we think about making changes to bathrooms or grab bars or easier ways to get up and down downstairs, the reality is there’s a lot of other people as we know, in that demographic who might be perfectly delighted. ’cause I think that’s one of the things mm-hmm. That causes people to hesitate.

Keith Kiker: Well, I don’t wanna make a bunch of change in the house. ’cause if we go to the retirement community, we’re gonna sell the house and then we’re gonna have to undo it all. 

To 

Keith Kiker: your point, I don’t know that you have to undo 

Dan Drews: it all. And, and if they do have to undo it all people undo stuff all the time.

Dan Drews: Cabinets, doors and everything. Your point, just flip 

Brennen Roberts: it back. Yeah. We talked with Jen Rohan a little while ago. Shit. Keller Williams Realty, and, you know, yeah. That’s just part of the aging population. There’s a, there’s a segment of the population that, like, that’s kind of what I want. I need that kind of stuff and Right.

Brennen Roberts: You know, maybe I want to transition to out that already has it, you know, and there’s, and it’s interesting, you know, there, there are so many great resources out there like. They’ll be at the senior expo. We’re going to by triad, you know, there’s, uh, mobility, you know 

Dan Drews: mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: [00:32:00] Companies that will come in and Yeah.

Brennen Roberts: You know, help, like, well walk through your house and, you know, it doesn’t have to be like, we’re gonna get the lift up the stairs or a wheelchair ramp, but simple things you can do around the house to help make. A little easier and more accessible, so, 

Keith Kiker: yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Um, it doesn’t have to, shouldn’t feel like it’s such a, such a huge change.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Well, and it may be a very small sort of price to pay if you want to maintain that independent living. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Right. You, you may eventually have to compare. That option to going ahead and moving into a retirement community. And if you don’t want to do that, 

Dan Drews: yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Mm-hmm. It’s maybe not that big a deal.

Keith Kiker: Something has 

Dan Drews: changed and it’s again, probably something you could help, like the financial decision, do I invest X number of dollars to kind of renovate my home? Or do in, instead of doing that, do maybe I move to an assisted living or retirement type, uh, place. Yeah. So 

Brennen Roberts: I’m not gonna lie, I got a little older house and I swapped out the toilet like a little bit ago, and we had the really [00:33:00] low toilets.

Brennen Roberts: We put in a taller one and I’m like. Oh my gosh, this is so comfortable. Why didn’t I do this? Why didn’t I do this years ago? You 

Dan Drews: know? 

Brennen Roberts: I 

Dan Drews: was like, oh, 

Brennen Roberts: you might find like, 

Dan Drews: oh, alright, I thought you were gonna take me, I thought you were gonna tell me it takes more work to get up on 

Brennen Roberts: something. No, no, it was not gonna, it’s not gonna go in a bad direction than that.

Brennen Roberts: But I was just, it was not, it was just not even a house of modification with the intent. It’s just kinda like that’s a little bit of the style and it was. End up being such an easy pen. I’m like, oh, I should have done that years ago. It was so much better for the family, you know? 

Dan Drews: Right. 

Brennen Roberts: So, well, Brent, segue off of that 

Dan Drews: expert take.

Dan Drews: Take me to the next slide and then you’ll see the segue. Uh, we’re gonna go to the next slide here a little bit, Keith too, and talking about kind of planning and contingencies and how to reduce the stress. If I come to you, like, say, say I’m coming in and I’m at, I’m at ground zero, I’m at a. In the steps from A to Z, what, how do I get started?

Dan Drews: Or what sort of advice would you give somebody who is really at the starting line of trying [00:34:00] to figure out their financial plan for either themselves or, and or their children? 

Keith Kiker: Yeah, that’s an interesting, uh, question. It’s, it’s, uh, the, the way our business has grown over the years has been strictly through referral and what gets somebody, uh.

Keith Kiker: To finally decide they wanna work with a financial advisor is kind of all over the board. Right. I have a really funny story where, uh, this, uh, client, uh, was actually at a party, at a friend’s house and somehow observed, this is actually the second time this has happened, where somebody observed how orderly the home was, and they made a conclusion that the finances must follow the orderliness of the house.

Keith Kiker: No kidding. And said, you’ve got everything pretty dialed in. Is this how your finances are? Because I could maybe use your guy that is not a crazy, it’s the other one is the guy that’s got the coolest garage you’ve ever seen. And his neighbor’s like, if you keep your garage like [00:35:00] this, I think your finances have gotta be totally dialed.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: And those are clients in yours? Clients now of mine. Right. And And so re really, it’s not uncommon though, for a life event to provoke. I really, yeah. You know, with the advent of 4 0 1 Ks and all of the, uh, benefits we have at work, even though pensions have fallen away, there’s a lot of I can do this myself.

Keith Kiker: And I think that right at the end there, when it’s time to actually start drawing money out of the accounts. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Where do I take the money from first? Did I really save enough? Mm-hmm. I want that last triple check to make sure we actually did everything. Those life events can prompt. A comprehensive financial plan.

Keith Kiker: Right? Right. And so you’re trying to, just like we’ve been talking about, get an inventory of everything that’s going on, put it hopefully all in one place so that you can see what’s going on. And that’s the beginning of that. And if we’ve waited past that, and I’m, I almost said [00:36:00] if we’ve waited too long, but you know, the client I mentioned in New York.

Keith Kiker: He actually kind of didn’t wait too long. Mm-hmm. He did a great job with his money until he was 88 years old and just didn’t want to do it anymore. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, 

Keith Kiker: and he did a great job. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: He didn’t need me before that, 

Dan Drews: but 

Keith Kiker: his daughter brought me into the situation and it served as a way to connect.

Keith Kiker: Okay. I understand everything that he has and what’s going on. I can help him and then I’ll be here and able to pivot. Right. And we, we actually lost him, uh, recently and it worked exactly like it was supposed to. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Good, good. You brought up something kind of interesting there that I can see how through the advent of 4 0 1 Ks, profit sharing plans and things of that nature.

Dan Drews: That has become easier for people in their twenties and thirties and forties to save. But then you’re, you’re right. There becomes a strategy in your fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties on how to then take it out. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: So that one, [00:37:00] you’re making sure you maximize the benefits yourself. And two, we’re all Patriots here, but you know, the US government gets its fair share and how do we minimize that tax exposure?

Dan Drews: And being careful for what I might call little landmines with required minimum distributions and things like that, that can spike your income and spike your taxes with your, you know, not, not really being aware of it if you’re not paying attention. 

Keith Kiker: Yeah, I, I have a funny reflection about that because I spent so many years building so many financial plans that I, you know, came to feel like I could pretty well guess if somebody lived in the western suburbs.

Keith Kiker: We met, I started to understand their situation. You would either kind of have this, Ooh, this is tight. I don’t know if this is gonna work. Mm-hmm. Or, yeah, this should be fine, or this is more than fine, right? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: But I’ve run a couple financial plans that after I kind of had an initial in my [00:38:00] gut assessment, I ran it through our financial models and I was like, what’s going on?

Keith Kiker: It worked even better than I expected it to, or it didn’t work as well as I thought. 

Dan Drews: Interesting. 

Keith Kiker: And I think the function of that is there’s just too many variables mm-hmm. For all of us to, uh, contemplate. So taking social security later, if you’re reasonably healthy and you think you’re gonna live a long time can make a lot of sense.

Keith Kiker: But if you’re gonna dig into an IRA, that’s gonna cause you a lot of tax pain. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: There might be an argument for taking your social security a little earlier. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: A couple years before the maximum age 70. You mentioned RMDs, when do those kick in? How do those work? Do you give to charity? Well, you can give to charity right out of your RMD now.

Dan Drews: Right? 

Keith Kiker: Which is a pretty neat trick that a lot of people don’t necessarily know, uh, or Roth conversions. There’s usually, in our tax planning side, there’s usually this chart that shows people that work, their tax bill [00:39:00] keeps going up and up, right? You’re making more and more money. And then all of a sudden you’re retiring, literally your tax bill plummets.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: If you retired 65 or 66, depending on how your assets are structured, it’s not uncommon. Your tax bill goes way down and it stays down for like five to eight years and then it jumps back up and the reason it jumps back up is because of RMDs. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Now they’re making you take money whether you need it or not.

Keith Kiker: That zone right there, we always try to identify that for our clients. Because we’re looking forward to Roth conversions right in that valley. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: That’s the moment, right? We all know put away money pre-tax when you’re in a high tax rate. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: But what people don’t think as much about is reverse that assumption at that moment in time.

Keith Kiker: Take money out of taxable accounts when you’re at a zero tax rate. 10 12. If we’re going back to 32, I want to take at 12. That’s a great deal. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And another great reason to enlist the help of a certified financial planner is because all of these [00:40:00] little intricacies Yeah. Have very fine details.

Dan Drews: Like the one you mentioned too, being able to donate to a non-for-profit through your r and d. Like I, it’s my understanding that check has to come. Like it can’t come to you first, and if it does Right, the government’s gonna want its, you know, share. Yeah. Right. Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: So it’s gotta be written out to the charity.

Keith Kiker: Right. And then we’ll give you the chance, we’ll send it straight to the charity or we’ll send it to your house. Paid to the charity. Mm-hmm. So you can still deliver it, right? Yeah. But it came straight, you’re right, right out of the IRA and there’s a new tax form that’s making that a lot easier to report.

Keith Kiker: So that you know, and the government is very clear, how much of that was QCD, you call it? Qualified charitable distribution? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Qc, how much is QCD? How much was IRA distribution you took for yourself? 

Dan Drews: Yeah, right. No, it’s, 

Keith Kiker: and on that note gift, highly appreciated stock. If you have highly appreciated stock, find a way to give that to charity instead of writing checks to charity.

Keith Kiker: ’cause you get rid of the cost basis. And if [00:41:00] you love that Apple stock. Then just put new cash into your portfolio and buy stock in Apple. Again, 

Dan Drews: folks, this is why you gotta call Keith. I mean, stuff like this. And I, and it is so interesting, right? Because all that you add up nuance number one, nuance number two, nuance number three, and it makes a drastic difference in the net effect of your financial stability and your tax exposure at the same time.

Brennen Roberts: I think about it in our, whatever, our path transparency, it’s like, you know, do. Knowing your pa, if you start those conversations and your parents are like 70 or 65, you know, you’re recently retired post-retirement, like do you have a financial advisor, somebody you trust that’s gonna help you get through this kind of thing?

Brennen Roberts: ’cause you know, I really think you worked your whole life to accumulate hopefully right? Some money. And at end of your life you should. Well, not even end of your life, but you know, you’ve, you’ve reached a [00:42:00] point where I need to, I want to create more memories. I want to gift it to my kids. Yes. Right. I want to be, you know, very directive with how it happens, you know, so.

Dan Drews: If we could, let’s go to the second part of this slide, the bottom part here. We’ve talked a little bit about some of the financial stuff too. Let’s talk about the long-term care and decision making. How do you coach folks up on that? Or what, what advice do you give for them for, you know, some of the health related items that they need to be thoughtful of?

Keith Kiker: Yeah, I, I think the important items there and, uh, your estate planning attorney guest right, would’ve already covered this. Mm-hmm. But simple documents like durable power of attorney, durable healthcare, power of attorney sets you up for who’s gonna make decisions when you can’t. And almost always for me, if something happens to me, Susie, my wife, is the first one to ask.

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: But then who after that, what if both of us, something happens? So there’s some [00:43:00] of those kind of things. Uh, the words long-term care show up, uh, on the slide. Mm-hmm. And we’re hearing a lot about that. Right. And, uh, Brennan. I hear a lot of people wanna stay in their home as long as they can, and I get that.

Keith Kiker: I think that’s what I would like. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: So the idea that we actually talked about this, we were on one of these calls getting ready for this when I was at my parents’ house out in Colorado, and you told me there’s a great team of ladies, I think seniors, helping seniors right there where they are.

Keith Kiker: Long-term care frequently triggers into a conversation about. Long-term care insurance, and I think we need to reframe that a little bit and talk about long-term care planning. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: Whether you have the insurance, whether it’s right for you, whether you’ve got a good policy or a bad policy is a discussion.

Keith Kiker: But the act and the process of moving into an a season of life where you may need [00:44:00] care is the more important decision. The more important discussion. Are we gonna, you know, keep our eye on. Where is there a good care facility nearby and let’s get to know which ones those are. Prioritize ’em a little bit and at least understand the basic cost framework.

Keith Kiker: Nobody has to make any decisions. Let’s have the data handy. Let’s look at your long-term care. If you do have a long-term care policy and remind ourselves they’re probably happy to pay for care at home. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: When, when we reviewed that with my folks, they were like super relieved. Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people feel like.

Keith Kiker: Oh, I have to go to a facility to get these benefits, and that isn’t necessarily true. Correct. Right. And so I think this idea of the conversation goes hand in hand with the doing. So if you have some simple things that we can start having somebody show up at the house, it’s actually going to ensure that you can stay in your home longer.

Keith Kiker: [00:45:00] If you can practice having somebody mow the lunch shovel, help you with grocery shopping, if you could have somebody attend an appointment with you if you needed that. Those are all things practicing for living Right where you are for the next 15 years. Come what may, because when we need actual medical care, like a nurse, this is not gonna be so foreign.

Keith Kiker: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: Brennen that really talks about, that’s really in your wheelhouse there too. Um, for seniors, helping seniors. I think that’s what you’re helping folks with every day. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. You know, I think people are always afraid of it. A lot of times it’s, you know, most of it’s out of pocket. You know, there’s some long-term sometimes mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: Medicare, VA benefits, but, you know, at the end of the day, it’s, it’s a path, you know, and the costs are relative to, you know, high intensity care in a facility versus, you know. 10 to 15 hours a week in the home that will extend you out for a couple of years. It’s, it’s, you know, [00:46:00] a bit of investment in your independence.

Keith Kiker: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Um, but it’s, it, it’s kind of a, it, it, it’s a continuum for sure. So 

Keith Kiker: I like that term. Sorry to interrupt. Investment in your independence. Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: It is a great way to think 

Dan Drews: about 

Keith Kiker: it. Right. That’s gonna pay dividends. When you invest in your independence. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Yep. 

Dan Drews: So says the financial planner right there.

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah, 

Brennen Roberts: yeah. 

Dan Drews: Brenda, why don’t you take us to our final slide there for a couple, uh, different thoughts here too. Yep. We’re going to, we’re gonna go over a couple, uh, thoughts here too. A couple interesting things too, Keith, that you brought to our attention. Where do you wanna start on this slide? On, uh, either the account aggregation or some of the unclaimed property?

Dan Drews: What are some of the things that people should be aware of? 

Keith Kiker: Well, so, uh, you know, lot, lots of folks are not aggregating their account. They may not use that terminology, but in our particular. A case, we use a wealth management software where all the accounts can be aggregated. Brennen mentioned earlier.

Keith Kiker: Mm-hmm. You can link different accounts in and it gives you a [00:47:00] dashboard that helps you understand the inventory of financial assets. Right? That’s called account aggregation. There’s a lot of them out there. So finding a way to encourage our parents to aggregate the accounts helps us build an inventory of those accounts.

Keith Kiker: Um, and one of the reasons to do that. Is so that if anything does happen, we don’t actually lose the assets. Mm-hmm. Right. And so we did a little, uh, searching and found that Illinois unclaimed property over 5 billion in cash on assets 

Dan Drews: with a b 

Keith Kiker: are weighed there. And so if you, if you wanna take something away from this podcast, you literally go to i cash dot Illinois treasurer.gov and you’re able to put in.

Keith Kiker: Your last name, your first name, and the CI one of the cities you’ve recently lived, lived in. And boom, here it comes. By the way, your neighbors are on there. I’m on there. If you want to go see what Illinois owe [00:48:00] owes me, you’ll find a couple of inches. You a good 

Brennen Roberts: neighbor, but you can do it for your parents.

Keith Kiker: You know, it’s a totally, so you won’t be able to get what they owe me, but you can go see what they owe me. And it’s funny to see yourself pop up there. Mm-hmm. But it’s literally $5 billion. That’s 

Brennen Roberts: crazy. 

Keith Kiker: Where do we start with that? Inventory everything and know about those little annuities. Right. The number of times you’ll see a life insurance policy that was written in 1962 and it’s like, oh, it’s a $8,000 policy.

Keith Kiker: Okay, but let’s make sure we know about it. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. And it’s probably been sold like four times since it’s been 

Keith Kiker: bought. Yeah, right. There may be a different insurance company. And then that last one, unclaimed life insurance policies. Yeah. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners. What an exciting group to be a part of.

Keith Kiker: NAIC. Their policy locator service claims to have connected beneficiaries to $6 billion in life and annuity benefits. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: So if you do wind up losing a loved one, you, you gotta go on the hunt. And it’s easier [00:49:00] to know the treasure map ahead of time. 

Dan Drews: Well, and I gotta, I gotta believe even seeing that number probably.

Dan Drews: Frustrates you to some degree that man, all these people do all this planning and then they don’t convey the knowledge of the planning to the next generation. Right, right. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: It’s unfortunate. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Well, and kind of, uh, as we kind of wind down our conversation today too, b Brennen, are there any other bases we have not touched with Keith that, uh, you think we need to make sure and, uh, discuss before we let him, uh, go today?

Brennen Roberts: No, I thought this was. A really interesting and relevant conversation. We see it all the time with our clients and frankly, seeing it in our personal lives. So yeah, it was, uh, when we first started talking about what we were gonna talk about, this is not where I thought we’d end up, but we all realized like, this is a big important topic.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. So, uh, I’m glad we uncovered it and, uh, you know, I think lots of anecdotes about how and why it’s important. So, you know, I think, uh. You know, just looking at those numbers, I’m like, [00:50:00] 5 billion in Illinois Times 50 states plus 6 billion in blah. There’s a lot of money, a lot sitting around there that people work their lives to accumulate.

Brennen Roberts: Right. Is just floating around out there. 

Keith Kiker: Well, and I’m thumbing through my, my notes real quick and, and noticing I want to throw out there. In addition to knowing what the inventory is, here’s an important one. Fast forward to. Mid eighties, early nineties, and you haven’t had these conversations as much as maybe you should have, and it’s a little uncomfortable.

Keith Kiker: But one thing you do wanna understand is life insurance and long-term care insurance that’s in place. And to the extent you’re able to ask your folks to put you on as another party to notify in the event OFID premium payment. If you think of the, the great 

Dan Drews: advice, 

Keith Kiker: yeah, the terrible irony is you’re more likely right as you’re up against.

Keith Kiker: Making a claim on either life or long-term care, you’re also more likely to overlook the bill because you’re in the [00:51:00] hospital or you’ve got cognitive issues. It happens. It would be better. Hey, just put me on. Just notify me if it’s about to lapse. 

Dan Drews: Try to dummy proof as much as 

Keith Kiker: you 

Dan Drews: can. Everything. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

Keith Kiker: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Any other words of advice or nuggets for our audience as it, as it pertains to this type of, uh, financial planning or, uh, uh, preparation for the seniors or the sandwich generation? 

Keith Kiker: No, that’s a great question and, and as much as we’ll sit here and kick around some ideas, when you really stop, and I know we’ve talked about this, all three of us.

Keith Kiker: And reflect on your own situation. You just kinda well up if you’re in my fortunate boat with gratitude that you’ve got these parents that looked after you for not just until you were, you know, 18 or maybe through college, right? But they were there. They still have been there as this security, this backstop.

Keith Kiker: Right. Your, [00:52:00] your main champion and cheering you on. So thank you mom and dad, if you wind up seeing this for all of that, but it’s one of the parts that makes this inflection tough. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: Because they’re still who they are, but they’re, it’s possible that they’re gonna have these shifts, that it’s gonna invert.

Keith Kiker: Who needs the care and who’s giving the care. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Keith Kiker: And that’s an unnatural, awkward moment to reach. Yep. And so you want to be respectful, mom and dad, I wanna be respectful. Um, but I’m here for you. Right. And, and that’s what we all want. We want to communicate. We’re here for you. We’re alongside you for the journey.

Keith Kiker: Don’t want to overstep, happy for you to stay in the house forever, but let’s work together to make that. Possible. 

Dan Drews: I like what you just said there, work together, make them a part of the plan rather than dictating a plan to them. Yeah. Right. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Keith Kiker: What’s their plan? 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Keith, you’ve been an excellent guest.

Dan Drews: If, if [00:53:00] our viewers and our, uh, audience want to get ahold of you for some help, what’s the best way they can? Enlist your expertise? 

Keith Kiker: Well, we, uh, I’m a part of Ian Wealth Partners. Our website is ian.com. Uh, the opinions that I’ve commented on, by the way, are my own, uh, 

Dan Drews: very good ones by the 

way, 

Brennen Roberts: compliance, thank you.

Keith Kiker: but@vest.com, you can go search for an advisor, and if you’ll find the Glen Ellen, Illinois, uh, item. On our page for the Glen Ellen team is the pathway to transparency, which one will give you additional questions to consider and the framework that we’ve talked about today. Uh, and also would give you a way to reach out to us if there’s support we can offer.

Keith Kiker: We are certain willing to do that and have introductory calls as that makes sense. Vest Gen has office all around the Chicagoland area, and so happy to have. [00:54:00] Naperville and Downers Grove and Chicago and Inverness and all the different groups. They’re great folks that have built this firm. 

Brennen Roberts: So 

that’s 

Brennen Roberts: great.

Brennen Roberts: And we’ll put, uh, if you see this, uh, YouTube or social, we’ll put a, we’ll put a link, uh, oh, link down below or whatever for, uh, so they can get it, actually. 

Dan Drews: All right, sounds good. So folks, if you haven’t started this, or even if you have started your financial planning, make sure you enlist Keith. And find a way to kind of dot your I’s and cross your t’s.

Dan Drews: You’ve been an invaluable, uh, part of the conversation today. Keith. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Uh, we always appreciate experts like you to help us figure out for way, ways to keep our parents to age in place. And Brennen, we always appreciate you and seniors helping seniors, uh, find a way to sponsor programs like this and being part of the Naperville Area Family Guide on the topic. So we look forward to our audience joining us next time for our next guest. And [00:55:00] until then, remember everyone, it takes a village. So play your part in the village. Thank you very much. Thanks.

[00:00:00] 

Dan Drews: Hello everyone and welcome to Aging in Place, the Greater Naperville Area’s Family Guide. Our goal is to help the sandwich generation, which is middle aged adults, typically in their forties to sixties, who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously supporting aging parents while also trying to raise their children.

Dan Drews: We want to help parents age gracefully as possible to reduce stress. Uh, through education and some community connection, it takes a village folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover with expert guests that know the local area very, very well. I’m your host, Dan Drews, and with me is my co-host and sponsor, Mr.

Dan Drews: Brendan Roberts, the owner of Seniors helping seniors for the Greater Naperville area. We want to thank one of our other supporters, the Naperville Area Chamber of Commerce, who is a great advocate for all businesses to support [00:01:00] seniors in the Naperville area. Brennan, good to see you again. Tell us what’s going on at seniors helping seniors 

Brennen Roberts: Well, I’m glad to be here, Dan.

Brennen Roberts: So, um, seniors, helping seniors, you know, we’re here about helping, uh, seniors sort of age as gracefully and with as much dignity as possible, help them stay in their homes as long as possible. So we do that by offering. Non-medical home care support, which can range from like companionship activities, daily living, house management, personal care, and we do it through a real unique intergenerational model.

Brennen Roberts: So we really focus in hiring active, mature caregivers that have life experience that can really kind of connect with our clients on a more peer-to-peer level than, uh, than a medical client basis. 

Dan Drews: That’s great. Well, Brendan, thanks again for helping sponsor these types of conversation. And folks, our show today is gonna be a good one as we talk about how to prepare your parents and yourself.

Dan Drews: For estate planning for, uh, to help us with that. We are joined today by a Naperville [00:02:00] estate planning guru, Mr. Chris Colander. Chris and his father Dan lead, the very successful Colander law office in Naperville, where they’ve been specializing in residential real estate transactions, estate planning, and corporate law for over 35 years.

Dan Drews: Chris, welcome and thanks so much for joining us today, 

Chris Collander: Dan Brennan. Thank you for having me. Very generous with your guru, uh, uh, qualifications there. Definitely an estate planning professional on my end. Uh, I have been doing this for, uh, just about 10 years. Uh, got, uh, sworn in as an attorney. November of 2020 of 2016, excuse me.

Chris Collander: Um, so just coming up on my 10 year anniversary of that later this year. Uh, our office, we do about 150 plus estate planning clients every year. We’ll meet with the gamut ranging from young clients in their early twenties, starting a new family, all the way to the people that are gonna be aging out, you know, [00:03:00] 80, 90-year-old, uh, families as well that need to get things done and in place, uh, as they prepare for the next step of their family’s journey.

Dan Drews: Well, Chris, we can’t thank you enough for being on the show today and really helping shed the light on the key areas that need help. Brendan, this is a big topic. I don’t know where you wanna start with this. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, well, let’s talk about the big picture, right? So. Everybody intuitively knows we’ve got an aging population.

Brennen Roberts: The, uh, age of the, the 65 plus demographic in kind of Western DuPage County is expected to be like 23% of the total population by, uh, in the next five years. Um, and those people. Almost primarily wanna age in place. They, they wanna age gracefully, they wanna basically age in how they would do it. And then when we think about it, we really think about, there’s kind of three, three main components to helping somebody age gracefully.

Brennen Roberts: And, and, and the one of those is really, the first one is really this kind of like emotional and kind of mental, mental wellbeing. So are they, you know, preventing [00:04:00] loneliness, companionship. Kind of socialization, keeping people engaged. Then there’s sort of the safety and, and, and medical reasons. You know, is their home set up for them to live there?

Brennen Roberts: Do they have the right medical support system around them? And then of course, the last leg is really legal and financial. And, and that’s a, obviously a huge bucket right there. Um, and, and our business really helps kind of maybe with the, the, the top two. But when it comes to the, the third level, you know, our clients need help.

Brennen Roberts: And we see a lot of times that. There’s things they don’t think about until they’re in crisis mode. And at that point, you know, it just adds to the stress and everything they need to do. So I’m, I’m, I’m excited. I think what you’ve got to say is gonna be beneficial for a lot of the people that we work with.

Dan Drews: Well, Chris, let’s start there. Let’s start with the high level basics like. What is estate planning and why is it so important? 

Chris Collander: Of course, um, estate planning is, is very important regardless of value of assets that you might have. Familial situation as well. The [00:05:00] estate planning serves as your only way to have it written down, legally enforceable of what you want to have happen with your assets, upon your passing.

Chris Collander: Also, who you want to be, the people controlling the process of distributing your assets upon your debt. Not only that, but estate planning actually impacts you while you’re alive. A lot of people think of estate planning as just a last will and testament, really. It’s an all encompassing term that’s gonna include power of attorneys ability to manage assets or make healthcare decisions for parents, spouses during their lifetime, as well as maybe including a trust as well, which is a sign that’s in, uh, full force and effect.

Chris Collander: Has meaning during your lifetime and also can be helpful in the event something were to happen to an older parent, allowing for children to maybe step in to manage things as well while they’re alive. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, that’s a good point there too, Brendan. I don’t think people think of that enough as how estate planning helps them even before they pass on right when they’re alive and, and making sure [00:06:00] that there’s a process in place that their family can help make decisions if they’re incapacitated.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, I think we come across it all the time where. You know, perhaps the, the, the parents becomes incapacitated or they question their judgment about making decisions and the, the family is set to figure it out themselves about what are the intentions and what do they do. And I, I think, you know, the idea that having the power to say, this is kind of what I want to happen.

Brennen Roberts: Being intentional about it, um, is, is can save frankly, a lot of issues with the family down the road. 

Dan Drews: Correct. Chris, when it comes, when people come into you, do they come in with different levels of preparation? Some folks that know exactly what they want and some people that have no idea where to start?

Chris Collander: Yeah, we, we see everybody, people that have no clue about anything from the estate planning, which is usually what I anticipate. Because, you know, they’re not an estate planning attorney, so I don’t expect them to know all of the details regarding, uh, the estate planning [00:07:00] process. Some people are very well into the estate planning process.

Chris Collander: Maybe they’ve done this a few different times and they’re making updates, and they might come to us and know exactly what they want, or maybe they’ve done enough research or attended the right seminars to know what to ask or what to think about. Um, I say the right seminars because there’s definitely a lot of them out there that might be misleading or provide poor information.

Dan Drews: Oh, that’s interesting. Right. So making sure you’re going to a reputable source is a key part of the planning process. 

Chris Collander: Definitely, 

Dan Drews: yes. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well, and I think everybody goes to AI these days now, and, and, and you cannot trust what comes out of that. 

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: By any means. So, yeah. What tr I’m curious, like, it’s interesting you see.

Brennen Roberts: This range of people at different life stages. Mm-hmm. Is this like, do you see any particular like, like what sparks somebody to, like, is there any commonality or is it just a whole range of things like, oh crap, I need to do this? 

Chris Collander: I would say it’s usually three different [00:08:00] buckets of people that we see Mostly you have the younger couples who maybe just have their first child and one of the two couple’s parents, or both couple’s parents say, you have a kid, you need a will.

Chris Collander: And I would agree with that statement. Most of the time before you have a kid, do you need a will? Maybe, maybe not. Depending on financial situation, how things are set up with a spouse or if you’re an individual, how your accounts are set up. Once you have a kid, you definitely need to get a will in place because that will serves as your way to a appoint a guardian.

Chris Collander: Obviously we never hope any of this occurs, but if both parents pass away while a child is still a minor, we have to list who they wanna point as the guardian and will. Because if you don’t have that listed, the court will determine who the best guardian is for the child at that time. 

Dan Drews: That’s a scary proposition right there.

Chris Collander: Yep. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, 

Chris Collander: so that’s number one is usually, again, young couple, new kid. Option two is somebody that doesn’t have a plan in place and their parent passed [00:09:00] away, or they had a friend that went through this process and saw how difficult it can be without doing the proper planning prior to passing away.

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. And I would say those are the two main areas. The third area is people that have been wanting to do it for a year or 10 years or 20 years and just haven’t gotten around to it. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, yeah, 

Chris Collander: yeah. 

Dan Drews: Well, I, I have a question. So when you have the, the type of person who comes in for any of those reasons.

Dan Drews: But they really have no frame of reference where to start. How does that conversation start with them? Do you kind of guide ’em through the basics? Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, kind of let ’em know what the goals in general of this process are. 

Chris Collander: Exactly. So when we meet with a client, we’ll sit down for an initial consultation anywhere between a 30 to 45 minute appointment.

Chris Collander: Um, prior to that appointment, we always provide them an information sheet that we ask them to complete to the best of their ability. We don’t exact, uh, expect it to be perfect every time because again, they may or may not know everything there is to [00:10:00] know about the estate planning process. But ultimately, we definitely need to see financial situation at the outset because we need to know, are there financial things that we have to plan for?

Chris Collander: Total value of an estate can make a difference, especially in the state of Illinois. Um, but ultimately we look at that and then we’ll kind of guide the discussion starting with the basics. Okay, you’re gonna get a minimum of three or four documents regardless of what you wanna do. Power attorney form for property power, attorney form for healthcare, and a last will and testament are gonna be three minimum documents.

Chris Collander: We’ll start with, a lot of the times we’ll do a living will, which is a document relating to end of life direction. Um, as well, not to be confused with the last rolling testament of 

Brennen Roberts: mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Dictates what happens upon your passing. So we always start there of the basics. And then we’ll branch off from that discussion of introducing the possibility of creating a trust, different type of trust options, and as a trust needed for that type of [00:11:00] a client as well at this moment in time.

Dan Drews: That’s interesting. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. What do you, when you’re talking to somebody, like, I’ve got four kids, you know, they’re a little younger right now, but like when it comes to, 

Dan Drews: they’re not that young anymore. 

Brennen Roberts: I know they’re getting older, but, um, when it comes to like identifying a, you know. Financial power of attorney or medical power of attorney, like do you have any advice or experience about like how you would advise them to make a selection, a decision, or do you just keep default to um, 

Chris Collander: I don’t tell them who to pick, but my guiding principle is always who is the person that you would trust to make these decisions the most if you cannot make them for yourself?

Chris Collander: And you have to forget about how you think other people might think about your decision. 

Dan Drews: Oh, that’s interesting. You 

Chris Collander: cannot say, oh, I’m going to appoint child one, but I don’t really want to. ’cause child two might be mad. Well, you’re making the decision of what’s in the best interest of not only you and [00:12:00] your own assets, but also what’s in the best interest of the rest of your family and who’s gonna manage these things upon your passing.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, 

Chris Collander: and that might be different from position to position. You might have one child that you trust to be the financial power of attorney ’cause they’re more financially adept. You might have one that is, that you favor for being a power of attorney for healthcare because maybe they’re more emotionally there or with it, or are able to make those emotional decisions and handle those types of decisions in those stressful situations.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Or, or proximity wise. Like I know personally like. My father lived a couple hours away and I, I just couldn’t get to all his doctor’s appointments with him. And you want somebody there mm-hmm. That can attend and help him make decisions before you know Exactly. He was able. So 

Chris Collander: yeah, proximity location, I would say can have some influence on the decision, mainly on the healthcare side when it comes to the financial side, given the day and age we live in.

Chris Collander: Proximity and location doesn’t really make too much of a [00:13:00] difference ’cause uh, most things are done by email or electronically. Sure. Or things of that nature as well. 

Dan Drews: Sure. So you’re almost still parenting after you’ve passed on, I mean, making sure you put those plans in place. Wow. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Brendan, you had some stats and stuff too that you wanted to discuss, right?

Brennen Roberts: Well, I was interested in this, uh. Preparing for this, but this is, and I, we see this all the time, like, um, this was from the, uh, 2025 annual estate planning report, uh, recent study. And it said, so 83% of people, if you know, you ask ’em, is estate planning important? And they all said yes, but yet only 31% of those people actually had a wealth.

Brennen Roberts: Like, is this. Is it, do you, do you kind of see this difference in people you talk to? 

Chris Collander: I would say that that sounds about right. I don’t know if I could speak to the specific statistics of our office, but based on the initial conversation that I will have with clients, that could range anywhere from age of 35 to 85.

Chris Collander: I [00:14:00] would say more than half of them come into our office and don’t have a will in place. Hmm. Regardless of age, regardless of situation. You name it, they come in and say, yeah, we’ve been wanting to do it for 10 years, or five years or 20 years, and just haven’t gotten around to it. And they’re finally there to, to get started.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Well, and by the time you’re talking to ’em, they probably already figured out like, oh. I need to, I need to do that. There’s this whole entire 79 or, you know, 69% of the population that’s not coming in to talk to you. Yeah. So it was kind of interesting. They, they listed out like these were kind of the main reasons why people are doing it.

Brennen Roberts: I’m wondering maybe if this lines up with kind of what you think and maybe you can kinda, if anybody’s out there feels any of these why they shouldn’t be, why 

Dan Drews: should they get, why should they get over themselves? 

Chris Collander: Yeah. I would say the top two are, are for sure things that we hear a lot. Just haven’t gotten around to it or they think they don’t have enough assets to do.

Chris Collander: The process itself. If you have [00:15:00] any sort of asset, it’s beneficial to have something in place because if you don’t have a will in place and your assets don’t have any beneficiaries listed on them, they go back into your estate, which your will would control if you had one. But if you don’t have a will and you don’t have beneficiary assets and the state that you reside in at the time of your death.

Chris Collander: It’s gonna tell us who the beneficiaries of your estate are. Now, let’s not think that that means it goes to the state because that only happens if we cannot find anybody out there that is related to you by blood. No matter how many links in the genealogy chain, they are may or may not be away from you and whether or not you never knew they existed.

Chris Collander: If we can find somebody that’s related to you by blood, they’re gonna be an heir. They’re gonna get the money. Not the state that you live in, but if you can’t find anybody out there, then yes, your money might as cheat or as cheap to the estate would be the legal term for that. Meaning going to the state that you live in, 

Dan Drews: regardless if you love this person or hated them, they might [00:16:00] end up with whatever assets you had.

Dan Drews: Yes. Is this what they call probate? Is that what that refers 

Chris Collander: to? So probate court is just the county court system. Okay. Overseeing the distribution of the assets mainly. Also appointing guardianship for any minor children, but the probate court process is simply the distribution of any assets that don’t have a beneficiary included on them.

Chris Collander: That were owned in your own individual name at the time of your passing. Hmm. You go to probate court, the, I guess the public good concept that is insured there is that the assets go to the appropriate beneficiaries, and so therefore we have the court system overseeing that process. But if you have a will or if you don’t have a will.

Chris Collander: If you go to probate court, unless you do the certain things to avoid it. 

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: A lot of big misconception is that a will avoids the probate court process, but that is just a misconception. The will directs probate court what you want done versus the state telling us what you want done. 

Dan Drews: Got it. Right. So it’s, it’s [00:17:00] given the game plan for where you want your things to go.

Chris Collander: You got it. 

Dan Drews: Got it. Okay. Wait, that, that sounds like a scary proposition to give. You know, a government entity that much control if you haven’t put together a game plan, like you said. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: And how, in your experience around here, like what, what does that, how long does that process take to get through, you know, if you’re an heir and you have a parent that either has a will or doesn’t have a will.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: You know, 

Brennen Roberts: is it 

Chris Collander: takes a long time, right? Yeah. If you’re gonna go to probate court, on average in Illinois, 12 to 18 months, if not closer to 24 months, potentially. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: Really the quickest you can do, it’s gonna be seven to eight months, because once you open the probate case, you then have to file a public notice of death and a local publication, like a newspaper, a circulation of some sort.

Chris Collander: Once you file that public notice of death, then there’s six more months that have to pass that allow for creditors to come forward in that six months, because unfortunately, when we die. [00:18:00] Our debts don’t die with us. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Chris Collander: They’re gonna continue on, and now they pass over to the estate. Now they don’t pass your children or any other beneficiaries.

Chris Collander: Only you and what you owned are gonna be liable for your own debts. But if we go to probate court once we file, usually it’s gonna be 2, 3, 4 weeks after that of when the first public notice goes out. And then you gotta wait six months for any creditors to come forward. Creditors that come forward in that six months against the estate have a valid claim.

Chris Collander: For any debts or obligations that are owed by that decedent, if they don’t come forward in the six months, they then lose their right to make the claim for debts or obligations against the estate. So at a minimum, you’re open six to eight months because you gotta have the six month claim period pass.

Chris Collander: And if no claims come forward, you could wrap up the estate, you know, within a month after that. But on average, you’re looking at 12 to 18 months whenever you open a probate case. The next continuance date the judge is gonna give you is gonna be a 12 month date. Wow. ’cause they’re not [00:19:00] expecting you to get it all wrapped up in those first 12 months or get it wrapped up in 12 months and close it at that 12 month date.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Wow. And if the creditors are coming in and then that goes to the probate judges to say you as the financial power of attorney, need to pay that, or how does that process work? 

Chris Collander: Uh, good question. Uh, power of attorneys cease to have any meaning upon your debt. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: Power of attorney forms are only valid while you’re alive.

Brennen Roberts: Uh, 

Chris Collander: so upon your death, either the will controls or a trust would control, or if you don’t have a will, then no, no documents are gonna control. But ultimately, the executor, 

Brennen Roberts: the executor yes. 

Chris Collander: Person that you appoint within your will, or if you don’t have a will, the person that petitions the court to be appointed and gets approved by the judge 

Brennen Roberts: mm-hmm.

Chris Collander: Steps in. And once they’re appointed as executor. They get issued what are called letters of office, at least that’s what they’re called in Illinois. Letters of office now show that you’re the acting authority over the assets of the estate. So whatever assets were owned by that decedent. If I’m the [00:20:00] executor, I have letters of office, I can now get access to those assets, managing the assets, making the distributions as well.

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. Or in the event of creditors coming forward, well now we have to look at the line of creditors ’cause there’s certain, um, hierarchy of who gets paid first. Okay. Now, if the estate has enough money to cover all the debts, well then all the debts are gonna get paid and whatever’s left over goes to the beneficiaries.

Chris Collander: At the end of the day, 

Dan Drews: wow. 

Chris Collander: If the estate doesn’t have enough assets to pay all the debts, well then we shrink the debts down on a prorated basis and pay ’em all out and the beneficiaries wouldn’t get anything. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. That seems like an absolute mess if you don’t kind of prepare for that moment. And, and Chris, that’s one of the things we talk about is.

Dan Drews: You know, not only the seniors and how they can prepare, but our, uh, sandwich generation audience members from 40 to 60-year-old. Do you see a lot of that and or what kind of coaching would you give for people kind [00:21:00] of in our, I guess, generation that are kind of trying to prepare their parents? ’cause some of our.

Dan Drews: Or I’ll just use my example. My parents can be very stubborn and so I kind of had to approach it a little gingerly when kind of saying, Hey, what do we have in place? And, and, uh, how can I make sure and support whatever your plans are. 

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. Yeah. As far as a approaching a parent and things of that nature, ideally, if you can do some of the legwork on your own mm-hmm.

Chris Collander: Of figuring out their own financial situation. And status as far as what assets do they have? How are those assets owned? Are they jointly owned? Are they individually owned? Obviously that might be easier for some kids to do for their parents than others. As far as best way to approach it with the parents, if you have a lot of that info up front, then you can kind of do some of that like work that they don’t wanna have to worry about doing.

Chris Collander: Um, ’cause that’s, I think, another. Maybe [00:22:00] barrier. That thing of people thinking of, oh, I have to get all this stuff in place, or get all these details ahead of time, which yes and no. A lot of people think you need certain account numbers and dollar amounts down to the penny, but that’s not the case. ’cause we’re not gonna list your assets in the documents.

Chris Collander: The documents are gonna be all encompassing, controlling whatever you owned. Even if we list them or don’t list them. So, but we do wanna get a rough value of those assets. So number one is if the kid can kind of do some of that, like work on their own. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: That’s a good starting point. Um, as far as the best way to approach it, that’s gonna vary from family to family, from child to parent based on their relationship, based on parents, uh, current, you know, situation, whether that’s health wise or mentally wise as well.

Chris Collander: Um, because I think you are correct in thinking that. When we’re getting to that dealing of parents that are older, they are more likely to be more stubborn and maybe not wanna do it at all. 

Dan Drews: [00:23:00] Yeah. Or, or at least closed off. I find some folks are just really protective of that information. Mm-hmm. Which I get to some degree.

Dan Drews: Yeah. But I think they could be unknowingly causing problems for their kids that they didn’t intend to. Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: I think it’s people are. People don’t like thinking about their own mortality. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They don’t wanna do it. So, I mean, there, there was this other stat, uh, like, I was like, wow, you know, just, I think it’s like having some conversation and even at this point, like 52% of adult children don’t even know where their parents store their estate document.

Brennen Roberts: So maybe you had like. Uh, I think, uh, I think this is what dad’s wishes were, but I’m not really sure and I don’t know where they’re at. So, you know, that shouts to me like at least like, Hey mom, dad, have you done estate planning? At a minimum, have you done it? And where are, where, where can I find that stuff in case of emergency?

Chris Collander: Yeah. Um, I will get too many calls each year trying to find mom and dad’s. Will mom and dad’s [00:24:00] trust after mom and dad have passed away? Or maybe mom and dad are maybe not mentally coherent anymore. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Living in assisted living or memory care and the parents or the kids know there’s something but have no idea where to find it.

Chris Collander: And unfortunately, it’s all kept private. There is nothing out there. There is no public database, there is no database at the county. There’s no place that we filed the wills. There’s no place we filed any trust or any power of attorneys. The will only gets filed upon the person’s death never before that point in time and asking.

Chris Collander: They tried to ask me, well, how do I know who did the work? Well, either mom or dad’s gotta tell you, or you gotta find something and try and call around, right? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: But again, there’s no publicly available of who did the work or anything of that nature. So ultimately, what we always recommend to our clients when they leave [00:25:00] and complete the estate planning process, we recommend they’re gonna wanna create a list of certain things.

Chris Collander: Number one is asset details, account numbers. Logins, usernames for passwords and online accounts, given how everything is tech digital now. Mm-hmm. And technologically advanced. Um, including how assets are owned, whether they’re jointly owned, individually owned, are they in a trust? Do they have a beneficiary listed on ’em?

Chris Collander: And then also, where are the documents kept? 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Where do we keep the paperwork? And now maybe you don’t wanna share a lot of the asset detail with. Your beneficiaries while you’re live, but sharing the paperwork with the people while you’re live, in my opinion, usually no harm. In doing so, there’s no identifying information.

Chris Collander: The only time people don’t wanna share is because they’ve picked one child over the other and they don’t want the other child to be offended. Kind of like we had talked about at the beginning of our, uh, discussion. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Chris Collander: Um, 

Brennen Roberts: we came across this stat we were looking at, it was like the amount of like life insurance that [00:26:00] goes unclaimed every, it’s like mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: It’s like. I don’t know. What was the number? It was like the bill. It was in the billions, you know, just sitting out there. ’cause nobody’s put a claim on it. They haven’t connected just a death notice. Like when my father passed away, I remember he had told me and he had done a nice job, um, of listing out his.

Brennen Roberts: Stuff when he got remarried, but that was 20 years old. So that insur life insurance policies had probably been bought and sold like three times in that process. So it was, 

Chris Collander: that’s correct. 

Brennen Roberts: It was like a treasure hunt trying to like track down and then at the end you kind of run into a dead end. You’re like.

Brennen Roberts: All right. We don’t have a record. I’m like, uh, okay. You know, I’m like, well, does that mean he stopped paying it or I just did. I couldn’t find it. You 

Chris Collander: know? 

Brennen Roberts: Yep, 

Chris Collander: exactly. So that’s why it’s always important to list your assets. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: And I always tell my clients, update it at least once a year. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: Usually around tax time is the easiest time to do so.

Chris Collander: ’cause you’re gathering all your financial information anyways. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: But to that point, I could give two easy stories about the [00:27:00] importance of that. Um, when I first started working, we did a probate matter in Cook County, which we don’t do those anymore ’cause Cook County and again, solo practitioner. Mm-hmm.

Chris Collander: So time is limited in the ability to do that. However, we did a probate matter in Cook County, did everything, and about two and a half years after we closed the probate case, get a call from the daughter of the dad that had passed away. And they found a stock account that dad had worth $300,000. Hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: Whoa.

Chris Collander: Two and a half years after he passed, they found her. Oh my. Wow. ’cause if you don’t tell us what you got, we gotta try and find it. 

Brennen Roberts: That was a pleasant surprise. 

Chris Collander: And whether that’s sifting through your mail for 12 or 18 months to figure out what the heck you own, it’s a lot easier if you can tell us. 

Dan Drews: Yeah.

Chris Collander: The other one is I stepped up for another attorney in the area. He had a conflict, so he asked me to cover his court case That date, it was very simple, just stepping up. He needed a continuance. That was [00:28:00] about two months ago, and that probate matter was first started in 2008. 

Dan Drews: Oh my goodness. 

Chris Collander: Because on that one, there is a retirement plan that the dad had.

Chris Collander: From a job and working and that retirement plan had been sold so many times that they have been trying since 2008 to find out who the current holder of that retirement plan is. 

Brennen Roberts: Oh my 

Chris Collander: gosh. And here we are 18 years later after dad has passed and the executor is still trying to hunt down that. Plan.

Dan Drews: That’s gotta happening. 

Brennen Roberts: Good for him for being persistent, but man, man, that’s crazy. That’s crazy. 

Dan Drews: I, I think this the, the whole planning piece too, it really speaks to being able to deal with the worst case scenario when the worst case scenario happens. Right. And we got in this conversation with my mom and dad about.

Dan Drews: Uh, not only the financial part and logistics, but [00:29:00] also what do you want us to do with you, you know, burial and such. You know when, when you pass on, and I think that’s a big part of the conversation, to make sure that there’s not unneeded pressure on the kids. You’ll appreciate this being of the avid golfer that you are.

Dan Drews: My dad says he wants to be cremated and sprinkled on a couple specific golf col, uh, course holes. So, uh, I had to write that down and, uh, find a way to make that happen for him. So just a 

Brennen Roberts: couple of specific goals, not number four, though, that one would always eat me up. So 

Dan Drews: Chris, in your situation, do you ever have to get involved and or try to referee family dynamics very often or are you more just try to, try to keep them on task with what they’re trying to do?

Chris Collander: Try to keep them on task? Um, occasionally, yes, but ultimately that’s not my job. Whenever that starts to occur, it’s usually you have maybe a child that’s trying to be put, providing input. Well, the [00:30:00] child’s not my client, mom and dad are my client. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Um, occasionally, not often. If child will come to the appointment, the consultation, the signing, most of the time that happens.

Chris Collander: Nothing wrong. Maybe mom or dad just need a ride. They don’t drive or they aren’t able to drive or who knows what. And however, though there are certain instances where you can start to feel it. Mm-hmm. And then where you’ve done it enough where maybe there is some sort of a different relationship going on here or a different background that maybe we need to try and figure out or suss out.

Chris Collander: Um, in those instances you might ask so and so to step out of the room, I need to talk about something specifically with mom or dad alone. Um. But as far as that, we always have to remind in those instances, the easiest way to deal with it is I have to remind those people that are trying to step in, that they’re not my client, that my job is to represent mom or dad or brother or sister.

Chris Collander: Mm-hmm. Whoever it might be. And that is my client and my job is to put their wishes onto the [00:31:00] paperwork, not to put. The person is trying to influence wishes onto the 

Dan Drews: paperwork. Good for you, good for you. Being an advocate, a strong advocate for 

Chris Collander: those people. Yeah. It’s not always easy. It’s not always, um, 

Dan Drews: probably create some awkward 

Chris Collander: situations.

Chris Collander: It does create some awkward situations. Um, as well. Most of the time you feel those situations out and you determine there’s no, nothing wrong going on. We have to make sure, ultimately, at the end of the day as well, because the documents are only enforceable if they were done of that person’s free and voluntary will.

Chris Collander: If there was any duress, undue influence, you name it. Well, now it’s a Challengable document in the court of law. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Interesting. 

Brennen Roberts: Kinda I’m curious about, um, you know, we talked about the. Extent of estate planning. We didn’t talk about like trust, like family trust. Mm-hmm. Like when do, when do those come into play and like when do you recommend those and 

Chris Collander: Sure.

Brennen Roberts: What are the pros and cons 

Chris Collander: of 

Brennen Roberts: those? 

Chris Collander: Um, the biggest benefit that 99.9% of people all would get from a living [00:32:00] trust is to simplify the distribution of assets upon your debt. Because again, we were talking about probate court earlier, you only have to go to probate court again for anything that you own. In your own individual name and that you failed to list a beneficiary on you.

Chris Collander: Avoid probate court for any assets that have beneficiaries on them. If an asset has a beneficiary on it, all that that beneficiary needs is usually a death certificate. Notify the financial institution, fill out some paperwork, get access to the funds or the account within, you know, a relatively short period of time of starting that.

Chris Collander: Process. The other way to avoid probate for most people is honing assets in the name of a trust. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: So, a living trust is a way to set up and it’s a document that is valid while you’re alive in most situations. That living trust doesn’t actually change anything for your purposes while you’re alive, except maybe the title on certain accounts, real estate, wanting those things owned in trust.

Chris Collander: Bank accounts usually is well owned in [00:33:00] trust when it comes to investment ary assets, those are things we wanna consider other financial considerations as well. But anything that’s owned in a trust also avoids probate court. Now, while you’re alive, you’re the trustee and you’re the beneficiary of that trust.

Chris Collander: And all the trust does is basically a state that the trustee, the person managing the assets, has to do so in the best interest of the beneficiary. So if you’re the trustee, you’re the beneficiary, manage all your own assets for your own benefit while you’re alive, nothing changes, but upon your passing, then our trust terms change.

Chris Collander: If it’s an individual trust or if it’s a joint trust in both the creator’s pass, then the trust terms change. You have a successor trustee and instead of going to probate court, whatever assets that are owned in a trust pass outside of probate court as well. Once you pass. And I have a death certificate.

Chris Collander: I can then be the acting trustee. If I was the initial successor, you pass, I have a death certificate, I’m now acting. And the moment I have that death certificate, [00:34:00] whatever’s zoned by the trust, I can start managing, getting access to almost immediately. 

Brennen Roberts: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: And that happens outside of probate court as well?

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: So for the 99.9% of all people, the biggest benefit is simplifying, avoiding probate, avoiding that 12 to 18 month process, avoiding the. Up to 10 plus thousand dollars of cost for probate court as well. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: Um, so those are ways to simplify the process. Now there are all sorts of trusts out there, and another big misconception is I don’t have enough money for a trust.

Chris Collander: That could be the case. You know, if you’re 85 years old, you own one home, you have a bank account and an IRA and that’s all you have, and you know that you’re gonna live in this home until you die, well then the trust is probably overkill. ’cause we can have a beneficiary on real estate in Illinois. And if all the other assets have beneficiaries on ’em, then we don’t need to trust.

Chris Collander: We avoid probate court by having the beneficiaries. But let’s say you might be moving outta state. [00:35:00] You are not certain that you’re gonna pass away in this house. Or you have things that you wanna control beyond just giving assets equally to beneficiaries. Maybe you want assets to go in different percentages to beneficiaries.

Chris Collander: So in those instances, a trust can be helpful, be by avoiding probate and also bringing in those additional terms that you wanna have in place. ’cause if we wanna avoid probate by beneficiaries, most assets only allow you to designate people as equal beneficiaries. Mm-hmm. Let’s say you want 90% to go to so and so and 10% to go to the other person.

Chris Collander: Well, then we wanna list a trust, maybe as a beneficiary in that situation as well, to control those splits and percentages there. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Interesting. 

Chris Collander: Okay. Now there’s other reasons to create trust as well. Estate tax planning, which of course, Illinois is one of 15 estates or 15 states that have an estate tax.

Chris Collander: 35 don’t, DC does as well. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Um, if you’re under [00:36:00] $4 million in assets, which most people don’t have to worry about for the most part. Then we don’t need to worry about the estate tax planning. But if you’re a married couple and you’re jointly over $4 million, well now we need to consider estate taxes.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Because the moment you start passing money to anybody that’s not a spouse, and if you pass away more than $4 million, then there’s an estate tax that would be hit. And it is not cheap. Yeah. Several hundred thousand dollars usually at a minimum on an estate tax side. 

Brennen Roberts: Wow. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: And that 4 million exemption in Illinois is per person.

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: So if you don’t use it when you pass, you lose it and spouse can’t use it. Ugh. So if you do additional planning though, you can combine the two, four millions between a spouse, the to $8 million to combine together. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: On the Illinois level. Yeah. The federal estate tax, we don’t have to worry about for the moment for most people.

Chris Collander: ’cause that’s 15 million per couple. And I phrase that as per couple because it’s seven and a half million per person. But if one spouse passes, [00:37:00] as long as the surviving spouse is not remarry. They can use both spouses exemptions upon a second person to pass. That’s on the federal level, but not allowed on Illinois level.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: So if you feel you pay enough in taxes already, best to do some planning to not give the government anymore. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. It’s probably safe to say you don’t get a lot of people coming and listing out the state of Illinois as a beneficiary on their states. Right. So, you know, but I mean, it’s true. I think you, like, you work your whole life.

Brennen Roberts: Hopefully you’ve saved up a little money and you wanna pass it down. I think, you know, I think one of those reasons, it’s like, oh, it’s too costly. It’s like, well, you know, it’s gonna cost a lot more money. And potentially taxes, uh, tied up in probate court. You know, it, it’s, it really, if you do the math on it, it really makes much more sense to plan.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: Generally, generally speaking, an estate plan is gonna be cheaper than going to probate court. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Chris Collander: So spend the money now, don’t spend it later. 

Dan Drews: I think of it just from a parent perspective too. I mean, you go through your whole life trying to take care of your kids. Yeah. [00:38:00] You should also take the time and energy to make sure your estate is set up in such a way that on the unfortunate time, when you do pass away, that it’s not a burden to them.

Dan Drews: That they’ve got a game plan, that it’s not some situation where family members will be bickering with each other. Right. I think, I think that’s probably one of the last most important parental things you need to do. So, 

Brennen Roberts: yeah. Yeah. I, you met any other unique things about like. Do Page or the state of Illinois?

Brennen Roberts: I mean, you mentioned we have an estate tax in the state. Mm-hmm. Anything else? I mean that, I think we talked about this. 

Chris Collander: Yeah. Other way. Yeah. I mean, Illinois does allow for avoiding probate court as well if the value of an estate is under $150,000. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Um, so if you’re estates under 150,000, don’t own any real estate, then you can avoid probate court as well.

Chris Collander: Generally speaking, it’s still a good idea to have a will. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: Because again, if you don’t have a will. And the state’s gonna tell us what to do with those assets [00:39:00] if you have a will. And even if you’re avoiding probate court by having 150,000 in Illinois, you still file the will. The will is still gonna control the distribution of those assets, but still avoids probate court.

Dan Drews: Hmm. 

Chris Collander: So that’s at least a beneficial thing to have that will in place as well, even if you don’t think you need it. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Brendan, it sounds like one of the biggest things, and I know you’ve seen it too, is just making sure there’s communication. Between yourself and your parents as to what’s the game plan and you know what to do when that terrible day comes.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, and I think it, you gotta be able to do it in a way that doesn’t feel like, how much am I gonna get? You know, it’s, it’s really about, you know, again, people you work your whole life. The last thing you, you wanna. You want things to happen the way you want them to happen. And you know, we talk about living and aging as gracefully as possible, but it’s really about dying gracefully and, and helping, helping things go on afterwards.

Dan Drews: [00:40:00] Mm-hmm. 

Brennen Roberts: So, 

Dan Drews: yeah. One of the, one of the phrases that you and I have heard used, I think pretty well, pretty well, is mom and dad. What is your ideal. Vision of what happens when you pass on. Right. And, and make them kind of tell you the story of how they would hope things would go, and then try and align your strategy with that, so.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Yep. Uh, Brendan, what else? I think we’ve covered quite a bit too, I guess. Chris, any other words of advice you have for our listeners on any way to, to get started or why not to kick the can down the road on this? 

Chris Collander: Yeah. Um. Ultimately, you never know what’s gonna happen. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when, as far as whether that’s passing away, whether that’s something going wrong, whether you need, maybe there’s some, not anything wrong, but maybe you need somebody that can help out.

Chris Collander: Or maybe you are getting to the point of just not wanting to handle your own things because maybe [00:41:00] you don’t have the ability to do so. So as far as number one. Yes, it is a daunting topic, but ultimately let the professional guide you. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: As long as you make that appointment and you show up, they’re gonna try to make it easy on you as possible.

Chris Collander: As far as getting the process started again, and it’s gonna vary from family to family, from situation to situation. What I always tell my clients though is that you did it. Now the goal is don’t use it for as long as possible. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. 

Chris Collander: So just because you do it doesn’t mean you’re dying tomorrow. That’s a a good point.

Chris Collander: Yes. It’s not exactly a fun topic. It’s not something a lot of people wanna think about. My own spouse included didn’t necessarily wanna think about it, but we got it done and it’s in place in case something happens. 

Dan Drews: So you mean to tell me the. Estate [00:42:00] planning attorney even had to have a difficult conversation with his wife on getting it all done, huh?

Chris Collander: Of course. Yeah. We don’t, I mean, we were new parents. Yeah. The 3-year-old and the 1-year-old, and you know, we were enjoying our life. And of course you don’t wanna have to think about, what if I pass away and leave this young child here? 

Dan Drews: Yeah, no 

Chris Collander: good 

Dan Drews: point. But 

Chris Collander: by ing the necessary steps, we have it written down of.

Chris Collander: If something were to happen, hopefully our wishes are followed of who they’re gonna go to live with and who’s gonna manage their assets from a financial side, and how are those things all gonna be dealt with and handled in the event, something were to happen that we don’t plan for. 

Dan Drews: That’s great. Well listen you, this conversation has been tremendously helpful.

Dan Drews: We can’t thank you enough. If people need to get started, what’s the best way for them to reach out to you? Get started and kind of use your expertise to kind of help ’em down this path. 

Chris Collander: Of [00:43:00] course. So our website, usually the easiest way, we have a contact us form on there, calendar law.com. Fairly easy to remember.

Chris Collander: Go on there. We have a contact form. If you submit that contact form, it comes directly to my email and one of my other paralegal’s emails as well. And you should hopefully get a response from us in about 24 to 48 hours. 

Dan Drews: That’s fantastic. Well, Chris, thank you for all you do for the Naperville area community and such too.

Dan Drews: You’re, you’re a huge asset, Brendan. Thank you again for helping sponsor and foster these types of conversations to allow not only the sandwich generation, but our seniors know. How to tackle these type of topics. Yep. We definitely appreciate it and uh, for seniors helping and seniors as well. 

Brennen Roberts: So yeah, they’re, they’re not easy topics.

Brennen Roberts: They’re not complicated. That’s why there’s professionals like Chris around to help guide us through it. 

Dan Drews: Absolutely. So Chris, thank you again for taking the time with us today. We really appreciate the. The fact that we’re gonna help seniors age in place with, uh, information like this. Uh, [00:44:00] Brendan, you’ve been great.

Dan Drews: We look forward to you all joining us next time for our next guest. And so until then, remember, it takes a village, so do your part in the village. Thanks for joining us, everyone.

Dan Drews: Hello everyone and welcome to Aging In Place, the Greater Naperville Areas Family Guide.

Dan Drews: Our goal is to help the sandwich generation. This is middle-aged adults, kind of in your forties and fifties who are squeezed by the responsibility of simultaneously. Supporting aging parents as well as their own children. We want to help their parents age as gracefully as possible and reduce the stress through education and community connection.

Dan Drews: It takes a village folks, and there are a lot of great resources and ideas that we try to uncover through expert guests that know the local area very, very well. I’m your host Dan Drews. And this is my co-host and sponsor, Mr. Brennan Roberts, the owner of Seniors, helping Seniors, uh, for the Greater Naperville area.

Dan Drews: Brennan, tell us a little [00:01:00] bit about seniors, helping seniors. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, thanks Dan. So, seniors, helping seniors, our mission is really to help seniors in our community kinda live independently for as long as possible with sort of the dignity and grace that they deserve. Uh, so we provide non-medical in-home care services such as.

Brennen Roberts: Companionship support with daily living and personal care, and we do it through this very, what we feel is a very unique intergenerational model. So our caregivers are sort of active, loving, mature seniors themselves, and they’re able to provide more of a peer-to-peer support for our clients that really we think benefits our caregivers just as much as our clients.

Brennen Roberts: And we recognize, you know, we’re just kind of a sliver of the, the care and issues and our, our, our vision is really to help alleviate stress on families as well as kind of make connections within the community for our families. So we’re excited to be a sponsor of the podcast and be part of the conversation, and I’m excited [00:02:00] about learning more and, uh, how we can help our families with issues like today.

Dan Drews: Well, thank you Brennan, and a very important sliver nonetheless too, right? Yes, it 

IMG_7728: is. 

Dan Drews: Folks, our show today is gonna focus on the home and real estate and how that plays into plans for seniors at different stages of their retirement process. And to help with that, I am so excited that we are joined today by a Naperville real estate icon, Jennifer Drohan.

Dan Drews: Jennifer grew up in uh, Naperville, and she has happily been serving the western suburbs since. 2003 with more than 22 years of experience as a realtor. She is an expert in her field. Jennifer is a relocation specialist and an accredited, certified staging consultant. In 2019, folks, she was the. Number one individual agent enlisting volume at Keller Williams Infinity.

Dan Drews: Jennifer, welcome to the uh, show. Thank you. And thank you so much for joining us today. 

Jennifer Drohan: Thank you both. I’m honored to be here. 

Dan Drews: Great. [00:03:00] Well, listen, did I miss anything in that flowery introduction for you? 

Jennifer Drohan: No, no. You did great. 

Dan Drews: Okay. Sounds good. Brendan, listen, we’ve got a big topic to cover today with Jennifer.

Dan Drews: Where do you wanna start with this big mammoth topic? 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, well, I would, I thought we’d start kind of big picture like this is interesting. I think. I think like intuitively, people kind of know the shift. There’s some shift in demographics going on, and when you look at the numbers, sometimes it’s a little.

Brennen Roberts: Staggering, I guess, you know, we’ve seen this, you know, massive increase in sort of the number of the size of the population. That’s 65 plus. I mean, you can see this little chart shooting way up to the right, and even if you projected this out even further, the number of people that are 65 and over. Uh, in the country is gonna expect it to double in the next 40 years.

Brennen Roberts: And the number of people 85 and over is supposed to triple even. So, um, and it really, it really hits home. Like this is interesting. Like we’ve seen, uh, sort of in the, like just the [00:04:00] Western DuPage County, like the population, uh, has really remained flat. If you look at sort of the census data, uh, overall.

Brennen Roberts: But you’ve seen that the. 65 plus population is really going up significantly. So you can see, uh, these numbers just in 20 2010, it was like 10% of the population. And by just in 20 years, it’s expected to be almost 18% of the population in the area. So, uh, so I’m just kind of curious like. Big shift in demographics, like how is that impacting the real estate market overall?

Jennifer Drohan: Mm-hmm. So, e especially in our area, focusing mainly DuPage County, et cetera, uh, we’re seeing a tremendous lack of inventory of available homes. There are a big chunk of degeneration now that want to age in place. So we’re seeing less and less inventory for our new buyers to purchase, uh, because a lot of, uh, our residents here are wanting to stay in their homes.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, I think like our, the things that we’ve seen, and obviously, you [00:05:00] know, seniors, helping seniors likes to help people live in their homes. And we, we’ve seen like, uh, our studies show like 90% of people, if you ask ’em, like, I wanna age in my home as long as I possibly can. 

Jennifer Drohan: Exactly. 

Brennen Roberts: But you know, particularly when you’re getting up to the 85 plus mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: There’s a huge percentage of that need help and they do stuff. Right. So I imagine you’re, you’re in homes, homes all the time. Like what, what kind of things are you seeing with. People making modifications or changes to their house to help kind of enable that aging process? 

Jennifer Drohan: Sure. So if a resident has been in their home for years and years, or decades and decades and they really wanna stay, there’s modifications that can be done to the home to make it easier for them.

Jennifer Drohan: We always would recommend pulling up any sort of carpeting, um, laying down either hardwood tile or even luxury vinyl plate. Flooring now is a preferred, um, material to be used. Ease of using wheelchairs, walkers, et cetera. Um, things that can be installed such as grab bars and bathrooms. Um, we’re also seeing a lot of chair [00:06:00] lifts in two story property.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, we’re also seeing as much as putting on an addition onto the existing home to accommodate a first floor primary suite. 

Brennen Roberts: Interesting. And does it, does that have any impact on like. If you’re looking down the road at resale values mm-hmm. Do you see that like having a negative, is it a positive? 

Jennifer Drohan: Not necessarily a negative.

Jennifer Drohan: Uh, some of those items may need to be removed. Um, a chair lift, for example, is a lot of nuts and bolts going up, uh, up the stairwell. Mm-hmm. And for a buyer who may be a different age demographic, that might be a little intimidating for them, so that might wanna be removed. Before that comes on the market for sale.

Jennifer Drohan: Yeah. For example, 

Dan Drews: Brennen, I was just, uh, thinking about this too. So my parents are in their early eighties and they’re going to do a bathroom conversion right now, but those are the types of things that they’re gonna be adding in, in grab bars and things like that. In, in your experience, are there companies that kind of.

Dan Drews: Focus on those, uh, those type of, uh, revisions [00:07:00] or, uh, alter alterations. 

Jennifer Drohan: Most, most handyman builders can take care of something like that. Actually, it’s probably a lack of corporation that we have that would do adjustments like that. So it’s a pretty good business idea to, to come in and do something like that for people.

Jennifer Drohan: Yeah. 

Brennen Roberts: There’s, there’s a few in the area mm-hmm. That specialize in that. Mm-hmm. You know, obviously. Um, you know, part of our role sometimes is coming in and like helping make advising and like mm-hmm. Things that we’d point out. But, you know, we’re really thinking about how does the senior stay in place Sure.

Brennen Roberts: For bigger things. There’s certainly companies like a one-on-one mobility in the area that are, people can call and they’ll come in and do a more broader assessment and help with things like wheelchair ramps and figure out they’ve got some services. But yeah, I think a lot of people depend on like handyman.

Brennen Roberts: And thinking about they gotta do it this house, but there are, there are some resources in the community for them to do that. 

Dan Drews: Jennifer, when you find that, uh, families are kind of in this transition period, is it. Typically you see it initiated by the older [00:08:00] homeowner or sometimes the other family members kind of having the light bulb moment, like, I think we better do this for mom and dad.

Jennifer Drohan: The majority is the older homeowner. Yeah. You know, is not wanting to leave. Yeah. And the, the middle or sandwich generation, which I’m a part of as well. Um. It oftentimes does want them to downsize, get a little more simple with their living. Um, get a little more maintenance free in their housing. However, if the resident wants to stay, um, it probably would be the.

Jennifer Drohan: Children, the, the, the sandwich generation helping to make these modifications, helping connect them with the companies and suggesting what would be helpful, you know, what they need. Sometimes they can do even an ADA compliant vanity or a kitchen, if they are wheelchair bound, um, doorways may need to be widened, et cetera.

Jennifer Drohan: So that’s a little bit bigger process. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. I wonder. I, I have found it difficult sometimes engaging with my parents on mm-hmm. These steps that, that [00:09:00] they need to take the modifications that need to happen in the home. And I’m wondering if, uh, any family members ever tapped you on the shoulder and say, Jennifer, can you please talk to mom?

Dan Drews: And of course, you know, of course. ’cause sometimes that third party 

Jennifer Drohan: coming from the middle man, yeah. It sometimes it’s just a little smoother, a little easier to digest for the people who wanna stay in the home. Yeah. So, absolutely. Yep. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. I imagine there’s some times when you’re walking in, you’re like, okay, the amount of.

Brennen Roberts: Modification we have to make right. This home livable for you is kind of beyond the benefit. Is it gonna outweigh looking at downsides? Correct. And, and, uh, you know, so, so, yeah. So speaking of that, there’s always gonna be a time like, you know, a lot of people. They raise their kids in their home. You know, they think about like, I wanna have extra bedrooms when people come home for the holidays and all that stuff.

Brennen Roberts: But really their house is way too big. Or they wanna downsize, but they also love the community. They love the neighborhood. Like what? Like. Talk us through, like family’s kind of decided or talked to you about it, like, Hey, we wanna downsize, and what does that mean for somebody [00:10:00] today? 

Jennifer Drohan: Yeah. Oftentimes it might be a family decision, especially if it were down to one parent.

Jennifer Drohan: If one is a widow, um, the children may be really heavily advising. So number one, really we’re looking at. How maintenance free do we need to be? Um, there’s two different sort of downsizing that they could do. Are we needing a maintenance free living that is a downsized, smaller square footage property where the lawns, the snow, everything is taken care of for them on the exterior?

Jennifer Drohan: Or are we really needing some sort of intervention with. Some care. Are we needing something more along the lines of like a Tabor Hills or like a Monarch Landing Assist? Uh, at some point, which, um, weighing the options, it, it, the first step is generally a downsizing of a 55 and over community is generally the first step of a downsize.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. And, and, um, I mean we’re, I’ve seen a lot, a lot more of those, it feels like. Popping up in the area coming ‘

Jennifer Drohan: cause we need them. 

Brennen Roberts: They’re 

Jennifer Drohan: coming. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. So [00:11:00] what about like, uh, when I think about downsizing, a lot of times like. When my mother went through it, you know, it was going from a, you know, larger home to like a condo kind of in town.

Brennen Roberts: Is there, is there even like, availability is, is the, is there any inventory for that kind of thing? 

Jennifer Drohan: Like 55 and over sort of community? 

Brennen Roberts: Well, I guess there’s like the, like the 55 and over. Maybe you can talk a little bit about those, but also like, like, hey, like what are my options, I guess. 55 and over community or maybe like a small condo or a small ranch style house.

Brennen Roberts: Like is there inventory in the area? A 

Jennifer Drohan: little, a small, a small amount of inventory, yes. Um, there’s gonna be a bit more inventory available in the true 55 and over communities such as the Caron or the Dell Webbs. Uh, they’re starting to expand outside of DuPage County, of course, sort of heading. Toward Oswego, Yorkville, et cetera.

Jennifer Drohan: There’s gonna be more coming in. Um, there is truly a need for these communities and generally they sell out pretty quickly. Uh, there’s one new one in Aurora down south on Ola. It’s Dell Web. It’s absolutely beautiful. And I think they [00:12:00] might be in their final phase now, right? I think there’s simply Ranch Think 

Brennen Roberts: phase.

Brennen Roberts: They’re starting phases four on five. Yep. But yeah, it’s been very, 

Jennifer Drohan: very popular. They’ve been with building, they’ve been, they’ve been pre-selling out before. They’re, they’re constructed. There’s no spec models to purchase, so it’s only built to suits. Mm-hmm. Um, and beautiful clubhouse, they really are coming in with the luxuries that make it, um, a resident wanna stay here versus almost.

Jennifer Drohan: Moving to Florida or moving to a warmer climate, if they still have family in the area, they really are gonna wanna stay local. And that’s this market, that’s, that’s what we’re seeing is they don’t wanna leave the neighborhoods and an area and friends and doctors that they grew up with. So they’re comfortable downsizing into something maintenance free.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, inventory wise is, you know, it’s a little tight. Um, our areas we’re building huge subdivisions, huge monster homes. You know, 3000 square foot, not generally Two story, 

Dan Drews: not too many new ranches. I, 

Jennifer Drohan: not too many new ranches at all. Yeah. Unless it is 55 and over. 

Dan Drews: [00:13:00] Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: So yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re seeing a lot of that.

Dan Drews: I’m curious on the, when these new developments come up, like the, the Carolon and the Dell web, I imagine you guys get the first heads up that these developments are coming in sometimes. Do they have like a. Open house. Like do they, do they cater to the realtor market to say, Hey, listen, when you’ve got these clients, let’s kind of, it’s tell your clients, let let you know.

Dan Drews: Kind of a show and tell, if you will. 

Jennifer Drohan: Sometimes. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: Yep. Sometimes we’re invited. Yeah. Yep. And, and always it’s of. Course, if you’re looking, we need to accompany that very first visit to get you registered because mm-hmm. As a realtor, we do wanna represent you mm-hmm. Through the full transaction. If you need assistance with anything, even reviewing the contracts.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, the builders we work with are great there. Mm-hmm. But we have. The best interest at heart for our clients. So we’re kinda looking out for making sure they see, you know, anything that they might question that they, they don’t think of. So we’re kinda looking things over for them and guiding them through the whole transaction as well.

Dan Drews: Gotcha. So clients start with [00:14:00] you? They 

Jennifer Drohan: do. And 

Dan Drews: then you can open up the catalog, right. There’s, 

Jennifer Drohan: right, when it comes to designing the new property, there’ll be one-on-one with the design centers. Mm-hmm. Unless they want us to accompany work. Absolutely happy, happy to do so. 

Dan Drews: Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer Drohan: Uh, but reviewing the contracts, looking at timelines, helping with financing, and most people don’t think that they need a, an inspection on new construction.

Jennifer Drohan: We highly recommend it. So we can recommend our Oh, interesting. Our instructors to come through and, and really do a final, um, final check on that property before they take possession. 

Brennen Roberts: I think getting that perspective on the contracts, because they can be, if you’re building to spac, especially like in a place like Dell Web where they’re.

Brennen Roberts: Promising different services and amenities, which is one of the reasons you’re buying, but Right. There might be things about the timeline, so. Sure. So I, I know like some of the residents that got in early at Dell Web, uh, are a little frustrated because a lot of the amenities they expected mm-hmm. In the contract.

Brennen Roberts: It’s not until like phase buy [00:15:00] is done and here they are. I’ve been living in this area for sure two years now, and I’m still waiting on. The gate to be down and I want security, but 

Jennifer Drohan: Right. 

Brennen Roberts: It’s very clearly written in the contract that we’ll write it there. Right. But I, it’s not something I think most people are gonna 

Jennifer Drohan: catch 

Brennen Roberts: on their own.

Jennifer Drohan: Right. We just like to be devil’s advocate and look out for our clients. So, um, most builders do require them to be registered on the first visit with us anyways. Mm. And it is helpful. It’s helpful. We’re just, we’re just looking out for their best needs. 

Dan Drews: I would imagine too, some of your older clients, it may have been.

Dan Drews: 30 years since they built, bought their last home. Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: Complete. Everything’s changed. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: And especially if they’re needing financing. Mm-hmm. Uh, we can absolutely help guide them, keep them within their timelines for appraisals and applications, et cetera. So yeah, just to have that guidance, um, that’s what we do.

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. You, you’d mentioned before in our previous conversations there, there’s potentially like. When financing or discounts available for seniors that mm-hmm. Are out there? Like what? What is that? [00:16:00] What are those? 

Jennifer Drohan: Right. There’s different sort of exemptions depending on their qualifications. So senior exemptions, depending on the county, there’s an age stipulation, but that will reduce their taxes.

Jennifer Drohan: We are all obtaining homestead exemptions on our homes, on our primary residence. That’s a given. When you close the property, the attorney will file that for you, and we’re all getting that. However, seniors are able to apply for more if they have income restrictions. They can also get something called the senior freeze on their taxes.

Jennifer Drohan: However, this is most likely needing to be applied for year over year. So if they let it. It’s going to go back to the full tax amount. Hmm. So, uh, senior freeze is income dependent. It’s a lower income, um, tax freeze literally will freeze the taxes on a certain amount for them. Um, senior, uh, exemption is an age restriction.

Jennifer Drohan: And per your county, you would apply there. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. Okay. So what I’m, I, so again, the idea of getting a professional to kind of help you out mm-hmm. And do that transition, particularly government move for 30 years. [00:17:00] So 

Jennifer Drohan: Sure. 

Brennen Roberts: I’m also hearing like a lot of these. 55 plus communities, which are great in many ways.

Brennen Roberts: It sounds like you really gotta be thinking ahead. Mm-hmm. Because it, I, I imagine there’s like a waiting list, or they are selling very quickly. They do in the area. So 

Jennifer Drohan: they do, there’s, there’s a couple of carons right within the Naperville kind of window. Uh, there’s one in Aurora, there’s one in Naperville.

Jennifer Drohan: Naperville is the. Only one that I’m aware of that actually has a freestanding condo style building as well. Um, with one and two bedroom condos, underground parking, et cetera. Um, for truly turnkey living. Um. They have all the amenities of Caron, the pool, the golf, et cetera. Um, however, it’s, it’s in a, I think there’s maybe six, six level to that building that’s a gated community in Naperville.

Jennifer Drohan: The Caron there. And that’s, that’s quite rare to see an actual condo 55 and over in one of those communities. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. And I imagine, just ’cause you’ve mentioned inventory is so low, if somebody’s like, yep, [00:18:00] hey, I don’t wanna move there. I wanna stay somewhere near my own neighborhood. Mm-hmm. And I need a smaller home.

Brennen Roberts: Mm-hmm. Or something like that. Like, don’t expect to have a bunch of choices available. Sure. So you’re right off the bat and. Like, do you find that some of your clients you’re working with on downsizing, like the process can take, you know, a year or longer? I don’t know what, what’s, 

Jennifer Drohan: hopefully not, but it depends on what their needs are.

Jennifer Drohan: So it, it, it, you know, if they’re in a position where they can purchase their new home. Without selling the existing, which many people are not in that position. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: Mm-hmm. But if they are, we highly recommend that we get their new home settled up first. 

Brennen Roberts: Mm. 

Jennifer Drohan: They transfer over the furnishings, the personal property that they want from the larger home first, and then they can go through the sell process with us, with their existing larger home being.

Jennifer Drohan: Vacant, empty. They don’t have to go through the hassle of the showings and making sure beds are made and dishes are done every day. That’s a lot. Having through people, through your home constantly, through open homes, et cetera. So ideally, [00:19:00] if we can do that, that’s great. There are finance options where they may be able to pull equity out of that existing home to go and purchase the new.

Jennifer Drohan: And we have lenders, of course, that can assist with things like that. Um, if they’re not in a position, we’re just gonna make it as simple as. Possible, um, make it as easy as possible, such as showing time restrictions, no showings until after maybe 10 or 11:00 AM If it’s a little harder to move around in the morning to get the house ready, no showings after perhaps dinner time so that they have the evenings free.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, we’re gonna work with them to make it as comfortable as possible. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. Wow. And then I imagine, so you’ve got a big house with a lot of stuff. You mo you downsize to a smaller place. 

Jennifer Drohan: Right? 

Dan Drews: I imagine you would probably have contacts or work with some estate sale folks. We do too, to help liquidate whatever it is that.

Dan Drews: Doesnt want to be had. I know my parents always ask me, well, what do you want? I go, correct. I have all these things. I don’t 

Jennifer Drohan: need them. I don’t need 10 

Brennen Roberts: Christmas 

Jennifer Drohan: trees. 

Brennen Roberts: Here’s 

Dan Drews: our, I don’t 

Brennen Roberts: need 

Dan Drews: another couch. Grandmas 

Brennen Roberts: China. 

Dan Drews: Yeah, 

Jennifer Drohan: it’s [00:20:00] true. It’s really sad. The amount of China scent and crystal, we see it like a goodwell now because.

Jennifer Drohan: There just isn’t a market for it. But absolutely, if they’re really wanting to sell, we really need to de stuff. I hate to call it clutter because it’s their personal, you know, they love these items. They’re very precious to them. However, today’s buyer don’t want to see that when they’re walking through the property.

Jennifer Drohan: They wanna see it as minimal as possible. Yeah. So step one is always have any relatives family come through and exactly what you’re. Parents did. Mm-hmm. Please take the items that you’d like, or, you know, we don’t, you don’t want us to sell a estate sale, would really be next. Leaving any minimal items for comfort of living.

Jennifer Drohan: And then if they’re not able to take all those items with to their new property, um, there are companies, donation companies, and Downers Grove, Aurora and Neighborville, et cetera, that can pick up, they can do resale and if there’s nothing that can be resold, there’s obviously the companies that will just come and haul out.

Jennifer Drohan: Things that would be considered junk items. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. [00:21:00] Well, Brendan, I, I would think in your experience too, this kind of falls in that bucket of let’s have the conversation today. Yes. So we don’t have to get caught behind the eight ball tomorrow. Right. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah. And I think, you know. Things are personal. You know, there was a trip they went on or you know, somebody gave it to ’em and it was very personal.

Brennen Roberts: So, you know, those are the kind of stories I think are helpful to have with your parents as they’re aging and understand why it’s meaningful. Of 

Jennifer Drohan: course, 

Brennen Roberts: therefore, you might look at, you know, if you wait too long and you might look at this vase over here and it might not mean anything to you, but if you That’s right.

Brennen Roberts: If you know the story behind it. 

Jennifer Drohan: Right. 

Brennen Roberts: You know, it might, might take on something totally different you don’t wanna do, it’s true. Mm-hmm. So, you know, I think it’s, uh, part of the conversations you have with your parents ongoing and then as you talked about, like it’s a huge burden on families if like, unfortunately, you know, when people pass and they haven’t done that.

Brennen Roberts: That’s right. And for the kids to have to come in and. Sort of figure out what to do with all this stuff. It is very, it’s [00:22:00] overwhelming. It’s very overwhelming, so, yeah, 

Jennifer Drohan: it is. 

Brennen Roberts: So, and it’s nice to know, there’s obviously professionals like you, you can reach out to and they’ll help, help facilitate the process and connect you with the right people.

Jennifer Drohan: It’s a process. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 

Dan Drews: Jennifer, I wanted to ask a question if I, if I could B Brendan kind of about. Modifying current homes. Mm-hmm. Like if, uh, I know that we’d have to say, mom’s gonna move out and now she’s gonna move in with me. 

Jennifer Drohan: Mm-hmm. 

Dan Drews: Like, is there a lot, do you see a lot of that modification on current homes of the sandwich generation where they’re trying to have mom live with them now?

Jennifer Drohan: Sure. 

Dan Drews: Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: So we have a lot of clients that are faced with this. Issue. So there’s a couple ways they can handle it. If they have a large enough property, they may be able to build on for mom and dad. Mm-hmm. Mom or dad. Mm-hmm. Um, with a extra primary suite, if they have, um, a good amount of land, they may be able to even put something, they call it a granny pod, which is po, which is a freestanding.

Brennen Roberts: Okay. 

Jennifer Drohan: Um, suite, if you will, on the property, that’s gonna be a lot more difficult to get zoning [00:23:00] for. So in our area, that’s not really allowed. However, if you’ve got some acreage out toward us, we go Yorkville, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Playing field, you may be able to do something like that. Do a whole separate, freestanding, almost building for them.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, also what we’re seeing is some of our sandwich generation folks selling all of the homes. And looking for a property that can accommodate every, everybody 

Brennen Roberts: I was gonna Interesting. Yeah, I was gonna say, I, I feel like that’s probably a shift in what people are looking for in many cases. Like I completely, we saw this stat here about like the number of Gen Xers mm-hmm.

Brennen Roberts: That are buying and that’s like one of their main criteria. So I was, imagine you’re hearing that more often. Like, I need 

Jennifer Drohan: a 

Brennen Roberts: place to accommodate aging care. I need a place where either. 

Jennifer Drohan: We 

Brennen Roberts: are mom’s gonna live with me now, or I wanna be prepared to have mom live with me. So 

Jennifer Drohan: even just having a first floor full bathroom is massive, huh?

Jennifer Drohan: Because most cases people are not using their big living room, especially houses that were built in eighties, nineties, huge living rooms that serve no purpose for us anymore. If there’s a full bathroom in place or [00:24:00] room to extend, they can turn that living room into a suite. Really. They can wall, I mean, builders can do anything these days to wall that up, put some nice doors on it, attach it to a bathroom, or C, create a full bath out of a powder room by borrowing from closets or borrowing space from the living room.

Jennifer Drohan: If it can be modified in that way, that’s gonna be a much less hassle, easier way to do than both of you combining it to a brand new property. Mm-hmm. But. If not a, a new property might be in order and, and chances are they may be able to afford more of a property if mom or dad are contributing to the new home.

Brennen Roberts: That’s a good 

Jennifer Drohan: point. The combining resources. So they may be able to get something with, uh, a larger, two primary suites, three car garage, et cetera, and then they’re, they’re there with mom or dad able to help out every day a little bit more. 

Brennen Roberts: Yeah, that’s a great point. That’s a great point. So, um, yeah, I, what, what, um.

Brennen Roberts: I guess we talked about a couple things, like planning ahead and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Like any, any kinda like general [00:25:00] words of advice to people either navigating this today or might be planning ahead of time from 

Dan Drews: clients or your own 

Jennifer Drohan: experience. Sure, sure. Yeah. Um, research, you know, research, research, research and contenting company like you to kind of assist, guide them with that.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, I think it, it’s two big components. Are we downsizing into a 55 and over? Are we very mobile? Still, are we still very independent or are we really looking for something where we are needing a lot of extra assistance? It’s two totally different markets, and if they’re still very mobile independent, but need that assistance with some things.

Jennifer Drohan: Mm-hmm. Maybe dishes, laundry, et cetera, you know, they’re still wanting to stay either in their home or they’re downsized 55 and over. Just maintenance free living. To contact your company and really get that assistance in just for those, especially if they don’t have relatives nearby, which may be the case.

Jennifer Drohan: They’re still here and they wanna stay here. All the family has moved down to other states, et cetera, and they don’t have that [00:26:00] support system to lean on. So they need, um. Really someone to help but research really, you need to be comfortable. I think they need to visit multiple 55 and over communities and maybe they don’t want 55 and over.

Jennifer Drohan: Mm-hmm. Maybe they still want a community where there’s a school in the neighborhood where there’s a lot of action. A lot of kids, they still wanna see children and people out walking their dogs, et cetera. We can find ranches. They’re a lot more few and far between, but we can find them. If you have a little time on your side, we can find them.

Jennifer Drohan: Um, but yeah. If you’re doing a assisted, really move in needing some care. Um, it’s all gonna depend on where you’re comfortable with and looking at the reviews and et cetera, and what kind of level care you’re needing. 

Dan Drews: That’s great. That’s great advice. Brendan, dovetailing off of that, in your experience and in your experience with your dad mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: Any other advice you’d, uh, add onto that? 

Brennen Roberts: I mean, I, I’d just say start the conversations early, you know, ’cause I find a lot of our clients of. My personal case, it [00:27:00] unfortunately happened. It’s when you’re in. Crisis mode and you’re having to navigate like medical issues and working through all that. You know, other issues about long-term home and the state and sizing and all that is just, it’s daunting, overwhelming, right?

Brennen Roberts: And it’s really doesn’t become a priority, but it has to be dealt with. So I think like starting the conversations early. Uh, talking through, you know, what their wishes are, you know, and, and again, we wanna say, you know, people let’s, we wanna age as gracefully as possible. Sure. And you know, just ’cause somebody’s been in a home forever and they think that’s the only place there are other.

Brennen Roberts: Places where they can be happy and fulfilled and 

Jennifer Drohan: Right. 

Brennen Roberts: Social and all that. So yeah, 

Dan Drews: I’d probably add onto that too. Make sure you’ve got all the estate planning I dotted and t’s crossed as well. A 

Jennifer Drohan: hundred 

Dan Drews: percent as well. A hundred percent. So that, you know, power of attorneys and all those things mm-hmm.

Dan Drews: Are just in place. So you don’t get caught flatfooted when the time comes. Yeah. 

Jennifer Drohan: Have a trust 

Dan Drews: in 

Jennifer Drohan: place, have at least wills, [00:28:00] but a trust is that next level up where Yeah. Uh, we’re looking at doing that now because we, I just went through it a couple years ago, uh, with my dad passing. We put everything for my mom in a trust.

Jennifer Drohan: Mm-hmm. So it simplified for, for our wellbeing mm-hmm. When that time comes. So yeah, we are the sandwich generation for sure. We’re 

Dan Drews: Yep. Time to parent our 

Jennifer Drohan: parents and times we’re in the middle 

Dan Drews: right. Yeah. Well, Jennifer, thanks so much for your time and expertise today. Welcome. You are fabulous. Thank, thank you.

Dan Drews: Enjoyed having you here too. Thank 

Jennifer Drohan: you. 

Dan Drews: If people need to reach out to you for your services mm-hmm. What’s the best way to get ahold of you? 

Jennifer Drohan: Just my phone. Call me or text me, and the number is 6 3 0 2 9 2 2 6 9 6. You won’t be routed through a whole team, um, of, uh, people. You’ll talk to me directly. So call me or text me anytime.

Jennifer Drohan: I’m happy to talk. Happy to help. 

Dan Drews: Excellent. Excellent, excellent. Uh, Brennan, thank you again too. I appreciate it. Jennifer, thank you again for taking the time with us today and for helping our efforts to find ways to assist seniors to age in place in their golden [00:29:00] years. Brennan, we appreciate you as well and seniors helping seniors sponsor this program and being part of the Naperville Area guide on this topic.

Dan Drews: We look forward to all of you joining us next time for our next guest. And until then, remember. It takes a village. So play your part in the village. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Thank you. Now we’ll talk here. I’m just gonna Rhythm 

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